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Discussion in 'Stage II Tech' started by NJTurbo, Dec 8, 2002.
The old bridge is still blue. Give me a call you are welcome to drop by.
How much slower with the 400? Just curious, I have heard of 2 tenthes and also that they do not slow you down, so I guess this is open for debate.
In my car it was about a couple tenths maybe a little less. I only had it in the car about 2 weeks. I did not have it in the car long enough to really sort it out. Just did not like the buzzzz on the Hiway.
Why would it be slower? also what was with the noise coming from the Trans?
The 400 weighs more for one and it takes more HP than the 200 turn the internals. Thus more mass makes it stronger but also robs some HP. The engine was roaring from the additional rpm it was turning at Hiway speeds. Take your 200 car and unplug the connector on the side of the trans and drive it around in 3rd. get on the hiway for a short hop say 65-70 mph. That will give you an idea of what I am talking about. The 400 is a good tranny just not for me at this point. When I make enough HP for the 200 to become unreliable then I will break the 400 out but not until then.
Why not skip the 400 entirely, & go directly to the 4L80E?
Thats always an option. If you think a 200 is expensive you will learn a whole new meaning of expensive when you go with a 4L80. I guess my question is why? 200 will live for half the cost in hi 9 sec car with some annual maintenance. Even at hi 9s your street driving is probably some what limited and if you are faster than that a 400 is 1/3 the cost. I dont see a reason to use a 4L80 in anything other than a truck IMO.
A primary reason by many for consideration of the 4L80E is its strength AND keeping OD capability.
Hmmm...15K motor...5K trans...2K rear...pretty soon, & we're talking serious cabbage!
TurboDiverArt--- Thanks for the imput------Larry
thats the truth
Sorry, I misunderstood your original post. I thought that using OD was going to wear the gear so don't use it. My mistake!
Anyone running a 350 in a S2 car
Also what is the cost difference to build a 400 verse a 200R4 race ready.
I would guess the cost difference to be around 500 to 1000 less for a 400.
Depends on what you order and who you buy it from.
If it is just a race car, the 400 works fine. But if you want to drive it on the street the 200 can be built to handle the best of both worlds.
Of course this is just my opinion, take it for what it is worth.
I'd think the rebuild costs between a 350 and 400 are probably “about” the same. I don't know if a 350 is any lighter than a 400, maybe 10-20 pounds. 350 probably has less HP loss but is not nearly as strong as a 400. The 400 stock is pretty strong as far as hard parts. Rebuild a stock 400 with good clutches and bands and it'll get you pretty far, sprag is probably the weakest part of a stock 400. I believe there are people rebuilding 350's pretty strong but I don't know the cost difference. There certainly is more availability of HP parts for the 400. Also, the BOP 400 is a dime a dozen. I think the going price for a BOP 400 is about $100 if you don't have a core. I'd think it would be more for a 200R, especially with the GN valve body, don't know the core on a 350 but probably about the same as a 400, cheap.
$500-$1000 difference for a 400 vs. 200R rebuild sounds about right. Posting in the Transmission section would probably get the tranny guys to chime in. Also remember, it's not unusual for a built 400 with trans brake to last for 4, even 5 years in a 9 second car, don't think you're going to get nearly that out of a 200R. Like most say, you'll probably be rebuilding it every year. 400 is also a pretty simple transmission to rebuild. I had done many of them in my youth! If you know it's got the hard parts, replacing clutches, steels, band and sprag on rebuild is cheap and easy. Usually takes much longer to clean everything than it does to tear it down (maybe an hour) and another few hours to rebuild it. Probably take you all day to clean everything if you're particular like me!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. A 9-second stage motor is not meant to really be driven on the street. Lots of stress on the valve train and rockers. Here’s where you are probably doing the most damage. If you go with a really mild hydrolic cam in a stage car then you are better off. You’ll definitely be refreshing your stage motor more often if you drive it on the street. You need to factor this in when deciding on a 200R. If you are not really going to do a lot of driving on the street because of the added cost to refreshen the stage motor more frequently then you should just go with the 400. Does TSM allow 400’s? Bobby was just shaking his head when I had my motor freshened, he said he can already see the damage being done driving it 50 miles round trip to the track every weekend. I’m thinking about looking for garage space closer to the track to cut down on the street driving miles.
Thanks for the information. However if built tight, why would driving it to the track cause damage? Also i want OD but at this point I am not going to keep spending $$$$ every year on the 200R4. It would be cheaper to just buy another TR for street driving. Well that would not be so bad.
Is this the same Travis that said he would just rebuild the 200R himself every year??? Never doubt my memory my friend, I rarely forget...
Building it tightly has nothing to do with it. As far as valve train goes. To run higher lifts with a faster ramp up speed you need tighter springs (or changing the geometry like on an LS1) to snap the valve shut as well as to keep it from floating. This stress is put on the valve train. When you are putting out 800 HP at the track you are going to wear bearings and rings faster. This is going to loosen things up and it'll wear far faster if you drive it on the street, not going to stay tight forever. This makes sense to me if you think about it. Also, most HP engine builders will tell you the same too. They are way smarter than me so I'd just take it on faith.
Remember, the NASCAR guys were only putting out about 450 HP and no boost so it's not really a fair comparison. I don't know the cam profiles they used.
After seeing what i have into Engine already maybe i am seeing the light. I Have spoken to a few people since this thread that have spent big $$$ on the 200R4 and i am just not going to do it. Like i said early somewhere around here, i will just buy a unmolested TR and keep the race car a race car.
You are learning grasshopper! I always say, everyone needs 2 GN's, one to race and one to drive on the street!
>>> Well not everyone has "Art Paltz" type monies..........must be nice buddy boy.
Hey, you got 3 of them, 4 if you count Homer’s that’s rusting away in the corner!!! I think I need to put as much Miracle Grow on MY money tree as you do...