Concern with T/A Motor - suggestions?

Discussion in 'Stage II Tech' started by Larry, Jun 17, 2005.

  1. JCotton

    JCotton Guest

    I'm with Bill there as well, I hope you logged the run Larry. I'll be at the shop this morning, give me a call and email the log and we'll take a look. Sounds good though, what was your 1\8 mile mph?
     
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  2. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    I got it logged and will send it. 1/8 mile was 6.5 and 106 mph. I have not been behind the wheel in years and Im still getting used to this power. So,no doubt the 1/8 mile will improve. Bye the way - I changed the oil again before I left yesterday - all clear and draining back well. Im starting to relax with that. The smoking is now minor. Larry
     
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  3. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    I had the wires and coil pak tested - there are fine. The program from my last run looked fine. It was a just the RPM that would not climb past 6,000 or so.I readjusted the rockers to .016 intake and .018 exhaust. I pulled the plugs - they did not look good. Outer ring was black and wet and the center was a dark tan. Jack C. tells me I may need to change them much more often with this motor. Thats fine with me.
    However, I question the plug I have been using. I believe it is the same one Nick M. is using - NGK R5671A-7. Possibly to Cool for mine? Any recomendations on a plug. I would like to use a Auto lite 103 but the seat on this motor is the flat style - it requires a plug with a washer.
    Overall, I am thinking the RPM issue is just a matter of plugs prematurely fouling. Any suggestions on another plug MFG or heat range? Or, is this NGK plug my best bet? This weekend I would like to take it out with new plugs and check it out. Thanks Larry
     
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  4. Otto J

    Otto J Active Member

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    If you are running boost over 20#s of so dont use the 103 plugs.
    What gap are you running?
     
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  5. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    Gapped at .028 and Im at 21#'s of boost and as it goes- I want reach 24. Larry
     
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  6. 65vette396

    65vette396 Accepting Donations 4 C16

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    Are you sure you didn't accidentally get the valve adjustment too tight? Did you adjust them with the motor hot or cold? Did you make sure that both valves in the cylinder you were adjusting were closed? i.e. TDC in that cylinder? I had this problem once before, I was adjusting the valves hot, like you are supposed to but, I was doing it with the opposite valve cracked open in the cylinder I was adjusting. This made for the valve adjustment to be just a tad too tight and it slowed my car down over a second, due to the same issues you described. Good luck, Drew
     
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  7. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    Engine was cold and I believe I did it correctly- but I've made mistakes before. I adjusted the rockers per a T/A spec sheet I pulled off their site --"Roller Rocker Installation & Adjustment" .I adjust the exhaust with the intake open and just begining to close. I adjust the intake at the point where the exhaust just starts to open. I believe that is correct. However-I will recheck the gaps with your method to see if I have anythings looking tight. Thanks Larry
     
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  8. TurboTR

    TurboTR sprayhead

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    Hmm, concerned about burning oil, and suggestions? Well here's one- put valve seals on the darn valves, stat, lol... If you do, use the brown Engine Tek seals rather than the white teflon or black rubber ones. They are sturdy, metal cased and should be alot less prone to sliding off...

    TurboTR
     
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  9. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    Did that. I bought them form T/A a month ago. The oil burning has been minimized. -- Larry
     
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  10. TurboTR

    TurboTR sprayhead

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    Cool. Did that help alot? Were they the brown ones, or?

    TurboTR
     
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  11. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    Drew, overall - I believe you hit it. I went back to adjusting No1 intake/exhaust at TDC and then every 120 degrees thereafter for the others. I still used .016in/.018ex, however- my buddy Jerry Thompson suggested I not set them so snug.. I also went back to the NGK rep. who suggested a different Iridium plug ( $17. ea) -- luckly no one had any in stk. I called Autolite and spoke with their rep. He spent time with me and then he suggested their plug # 3923-- at $1.27 ea! I bought 12 and Immediately went to the BPG Event in Ohio. I had such a great time. Stayed right at the track with my girlfriend-- opps , off the subject.
    I still have a very mild program in the car and it ran great. I still did not have my shift lite working - but on the last pass it hit 7,800 RPM. It sounded so good up there. My best was 10.3 at 134. I short shifted ( 5,900 ) in 1st and again in 2nd. Plus- the car loaded and unloaded coming out.
    I admitt I was nervous at this event, primarilly because I wanted to use the transbrake for the 1st time.. I had never launched a car off a transbrake with this kind of power. Well,the 1st three passes were off the foot brake. All seemed good, so it was time for lauching off the transbrake. I was running Test/Tune during semi eliminations. I figured I had plenty of time to relax because they had over 100 cars to run before calling me up. Well, they ran the top class 1st, maybe 10 cars and then the Track Tech comes over to me and says - "Buckle up- we can squeeze you now"- ahh ****. I hurried to get the computer on line and by that time - the Tech was waving me in.. I pulled up - I "guess" I did a burn out - I pulled in - staged and floored it. I released the button and then --- all hell broke loose - I thought I was in Kansas-- I lost all train of thought - I didn't know weather to shift or shut it off!! I regained my composure and let off and coasted to the end. My eyes had to be as big as silver dollars- what a ride. An experience I will not forget - just laughed my butt off on the return road.The next two passes. I was able to hold it together and start to get a feel for the car.

    Overall, the motor ran great - it was the driver (me) who has to get used to the power. I have made changes to the suspension already - I bought QA shocks and took all the air out of the air bags. Suspension is much softer and I will have it at the track tommarrow for more seat time.
    I need to add, while at the BPG - many stopped by my trailer curiuos as to how things were going and offering any help they could. Jack Cotton worked with me all weekend, Steve Hughes, Mike Tomaszewski ( got me squared away on darkened plugs) , Pat Demarie, Nick McCale,Kevin Brothwater,Bobbie Slusser,Dave Fiscus,Tony Gomes, Dave Bamford - and more, all were helpful and encouraging.
    I also thank the people who set up the BPG Event- It was just all good - ahh, except no SHOWERS on premises. I was a real dirt bag by Sunday! Larry
     

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  12. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    Its been awhile since I have been on here - not enough time in the day..I have had the car out only 4 times this year. The motor runs great and Im getting onto launching with the transbrake and driving it. However, I am seeing a pattern with it. The 1st pass it just runs like crazy - yesterday I launched it and spun the tires. 60' was 1.8 then it went onto run 1o.4 at 133 MPH. I shifted it at 7000 RPM and it was strong right thru the traps. I thought - NOW Im getting somewhere. I let it cool down and ran again with very minor change the program at the top end - took out 1 - 2% fuel. 2nd time out it launch hard and then laid down - Struggled to gain RPM over 6000 and went only 109 MPH. Same for the third run. And I noticed the program was like adding 18 - 20% fuel.
    This has happened every time I have had the car out. Initially, we thought maybe the valve lash was to tight, not enough fuel in the fuel cell or the coil pack or plugs. I even pulled the fuel filter and no change. It just struggles after the 1st run - thus, I do not dare push the program any. I am running boost at 12# launch,23#'s 1st,22#'s2nd and 21#'s in third. Timing is at 23 degrees, fuel ratio at 11.0-1.. Fuel pump is Weldon 2015 with #10 out of the fuel cell and then #8 to the fuel rail. ON the 1st runs -- my correction through out the run is 0 - 5%. After the 1st run it stuggles and tries to add alot of fuel ( C-16). I am running a 74 GTQ Turbo with 83# injectors that on the 1st run are at like 83-85%.
    It feels like the motor is being held back after the 1st run-- looking for more fuel. It does not miss - just lays down. I did find a small exhaust leak in the header - just before the Turbo. I can't see that causing this. Could it be the Fast Sensor failing. It is 4 years old, but I have not driven the car for three years prior to this season. The fuel pump? But- it runs good the 1st pass!?
    Any thoughts would be appreciated.. Larry :confused:
     
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  13. ijames

    ijames Active Member

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    Do you have a vent on the fuel cell? Any chance you are pulling a vacuum on it? Do you have a foam insert in the cell? Maybe it's getting sucked into the line to the fuel pump but after a lot of time can work it's way back out? Yeah, they are long shots :). Maybe start with the fuel cell full and run a hose from the fuel rail to a fuel drum and use the Weldon to pump the fuel cell almost dry, and check the flowrate at the start and towards the end - that would tell you if something is dropping off. Good luck with it.
     
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  14. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    Yea -I have the foam -its new. When I pulled the filter ( only two feet from the cell ) they were no signs of foam particals. I will check the foam at the outlet of the cell. I did run drain the cell using the Weldon pump. I did not measure the flow, but it did not seem slow at all. I will check the flow anyway. Thanks Larry
     

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  15. BEATBY6

    BEATBY6 Member

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    Do your self a favor and ditch the Fram and get a Weldon or eqv. filter.The Fram is a carb filter setup.Good luck.Scott
     
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  16. John Wilde

    John Wilde RIP ChavoLC2 Staff Member

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    Scott is right, also run a pre filter if you don't have one.
     
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  17. ijames

    ijames Active Member

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    Oops, I meant to also say that when you pump the fuel cell out through the rail make sure the fuel cell cap is on and tight, since the point is to test the vent, sigh :). Also, make sure the battery and alternator are in good shape and your voltage isn't falling off from run to run (assuming you then go home and put a charger on it to get ready for the next time).
     
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  18. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    I have a pig tail vent - I will check that - could be filling after 1st run and then evaporates over weeks before I race again. Maybe I'll get lucky - I'll let you know - thanks Larry
     

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  19. steve hughes

    steve hughes Member

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    Larry the only things i could think of were the vent on the cell and the voltage falling off. Did you log your voltage?
     
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  20. Larry

    Larry New Member

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    THe voltage was 14.2 throughout. Maybe the vent -- did you stick something in there?? :D Larry
     
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