Found a StageII here in Sweden, have questions!

Discussion in 'Stage II Tech' started by The Swede, Sep 18, 2004.

  1. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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    Hi all!

    Today me and my TTA friend Lunkan had a short trip to have a look at an 274" StageII engine.

    Engine is complete except for the tank an dry sump pump.
    Has many extra roller rockers and approx. 4 sets of valve springs.
    Parts like titanium valves and retainers, Sonny Bryant crank, Carrillo rods etc..... you know the old stuff in them.
    Many spare parts like bearings and gaskets.

    Price is VERY low!

    Where do i find a roller cam that will work with a Turbo? Maybe looking for around 900-1000HP.

    One of my friends promised me that i can use the "stock" pistons if i run it on pure methanol? "Stock" piston is 11:5 right?
    And how about the top of the piston, can it handle more pressure?

    There is an MSD distributor with the engine for the moment, should i keep it or convert it to injection?
    If injection, what system? FAST?

    Some pics can be found in this thread, just scroll down to the middle....., And! Never mind about reading the text.....;)

    http://www.performerz.nu/viewtopic.php?t=978
     
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  2. Big Stu

    Big Stu Flogged Donkey

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    Precision Turbo or Duttweiler can get you a good cam for that, if it was me, I would run a motec, but they are a little pricey. I think a F.A.S.T setup will easily get the job done. Running a motor on pure methanol requires a lot of spark and a lot of injector/fuel pump. What intake is on this motor, and do you know how the motor made it's way to sweden?
     
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  3. Quick Turbo V6

    Quick Turbo V6 Define stock!

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    That oil pan will not fit in a GN with out notching the front cross member. Don't ask me how I know:D

    HTH,
    Scott
     
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  4. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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    I do know that i must dubble the size on injectors and have a good pump, but can it be done with the 11,5:1 pistons?
    If you click on the attached link in my first post you can have a look at the parts and the intakes.

    Actually there are 5 StageII engines here, there was a guy down in south Sweden who bought them from a racingteam 10? years ago.
    It was about when they stopped racing with these engines in USA, Bush serie or what it was......
    Another friend here in my hometown bought 3 Ford 4.3 engines at the same time, brand new long blocks.
     
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  5. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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    How much do i have to modifie? And excactly where?

    Thank you!:cool:
     
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  6. turbodave231

    turbodave231 Moderator

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    Looking at your pictures, That is a 153 on-center 4.1 block!!
    That has to be a rare sight in Sweden!!

    I would replace the pistons with a dished version to lower compression and run gasoline. Custom pistons will be needed. They can be ordered from many piston manufacturers here in the States.

    Running methanol is a pain and I would avoid it for anything less than a 100% race car. The fuel turns milky very quickly and you need to drain the oil frequently to avoid the blowby fuel from attacking the bottom end of the engine.

    You already have an intake, convert it over to fuel injection, make fuel rails, and a crossover. You could run the engine with the stock ECM (modified) if you choose to do so. I think Mac is using a stock ECM with his Stage2 setup.

    Lots of cam grinders here in the States can supply a good cam.
    Erson, Comp Cams, Crane, and Reed just to name a few.

    Dave
     
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  7. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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    Dave!

    Thanks for your reply!

    How do i see the difference between on centre and off centre?
    153, is that a casting number? And where can i find it on the block?
    The block has 4.020" bore.
    We haven't checked the stroke on the crank yet, but if it's 4.1 from the beginning it should have 3.4 stroke, right?
    I'm tould that it's a Sonny Bryant crank, made for Buick Motorsport.

    What customs pistons is best then? Ross, JE or any one else?

    OK, i pass on the methanol, i have Julios alkykit and will use it instead.

    I had a look at your pics a few weeks ago and wonder where did you find the throttlebody?

    Does the stock injector distributor bolts right in?

    Sorry for all the questions.......
     
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  8. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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    From what i can see from a high solution pic i have is that the casting number is 158.

    The block has 4 bolts main all over, front and rear has 2 bolts from the sides.
     
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  9. WHITE T

    WHITE T Baer Brake Systems

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    If the motor is an old Busch motor, and is a .020 over a 4" Bore I bet the crank (if it is the original one for the motor) is a 3.59 stroke.

    Usually you will see a 3.625 with a 4" bore and a 3.59 with a .020 due to the cubic inch regulations.

    HTH
     
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  10. turbodave231

    turbodave231 Moderator

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    The 153 is the last 3 digits of the casting number on the block. From the pictures of the main cap area, it looks like a 25500153 casting on-center engine with crossbolted main caps, but even if not.....still a very good block.

    You can use this engine with a distributor, but you will need a FAST or DFI ecu to control the ignition. Or you could use the stock C3I coil and module with a stock modified ECM. You will use a cam sensor in place of the distributor with the stock Buick coil and module.

    The differences between an On-center and Off-center block cause the distributor drive gear to stack up differently on an On-center block than the Stock block (Offcenter). The belt driven acessories will line up with an offset which can be corrected with a shim behind the balancer.

    Dave
     
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  11. Mac in SD

    Mac in SD Active Member

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    Uffe, you will get lots of opinions on what you can and can't use, and they are probably all correct in one way or another. You definitely can use the stock ignition and cam sensor, as well as the stock ECM (modified for low impedance injectors.) I'm using them with 96 lb/hr injectors, an LS1 MAF sensor, T76 turbo, and they work well. BUT, I'm not trying for 900-1000 HP. If I wanted to go that strong, I would definitely go with a DFI or FAST or other ECM.

    Regarding the stack-up on the cam gear, front cover, and accessory belt pullies, I really think you're better off shortening the front cover by .120, as well as the main accessory bracket. The reason is cam gear-cam sensor alignment.

    For the oil pan, just go with a 14-bolt stock-type pan with a baffle set up for external pickup. Most of the dry-sump pans will not fit in a Regal because of crossmember interference.
     
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  12. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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    I called the engine builder today and he had a look at the casting numbers, it's a 153 block, is that good?

    Thank you all for the tips and ideas, just keep coming with more!

    I'm still scratching my head about the cam gear-cam and front cover to be nothced/ damper shimsed?
     
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  13. Mac in SD

    Mac in SD Active Member

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    Uffe, the 153 block is "on-center" while the stock block and early stage blocks were "off-center." What this means is that the cylinders were shifted .120 each way to center the crank throws on the cylinder bores. The cam and crank are the same in either on- or off-center, but the front face of the block is .120 further out than a stock or early stage block. That means that if you use a stock front cover, the cam sensor gear, as well as the water pump pulley, will be .120 out of alignment. Some builders say the easy fix is to shim the crankshaft timing chain gear out .120, and then everything will line up, which is true as far as the Cam nose sprocket and crank sprocket, and the water pump and main accessories. BUT, the cam sensor gear will be riding out on the edge of the cam drive gear, in other words it won't be centered. There have been reports of rapid cam gear wear in on-center blocks, and I think it's because of this misalignment. So, in my opinion, it's better to remove .120 from the gasket face of the front cover, then also the main accessory bracket in order to line things up. Even Buick said that front covers needed to be shortened when using the on-center block. Again, that's just my opinion.
     
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  14. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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  15. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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    Hi....... naggy swede here again!:D

    Can i use this damper http://forum.lazzat.se/attachment.php?attachmentid=6914 and bolt on the rest of the parts and crankshaft position sensor on it?

    If not, does the 3.8 damper bolts right on?

    If not, is there a special damper for stage2 that works with the crankshaft sensor?

    Thanks!
     
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  16. Lunkan

    Lunkan Crazy? Me? :-P

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    ttt for U
     
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  17. KendallF

    KendallF Blah blah blah

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    It's easiest to use a damper that already has the interruptor ring for the crank sensor. Additionally, that motor was probably internally balanced and thus has a "zero balance" hub. BHJ sells an SFI unit with the ring that you can buy through several vendors.

    Alternatively you can fit a crank sensor ring to the one you've got. I have an ATI on my car but the crank sensor ring had to be mounted. Last option is to take a stock 3.8 unit, machine it for zero balance and use it.
     
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  18. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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    Hi Kendall!

    Thank you so much for answering!

    I had a look at your website and read about the trick to mount the ATI damper.

    But what is the trick with the rev kit bars and and springs??

    Have never seen that on any engine before, not even on a 1500hp V8.

    PS: Nice work on the oilpump!:cool:
     
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  19. KendallF

    KendallF Blah blah blah

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    Uffe,

    The rev kit is from Isky; the lifters are specially designed with a receiver on the tops of them that take the spring, and the retainer fits under the head. This allows you to essentially "divide up" the spring pressure and run a little lighter springs on the valves, taking some of the load off of the rockers and pushrods. A good number of the circle track S2s ran these setups, and I got one along with my block, so I used it.

    Glad you like the oil pump! Good luck with your build up. :)
     
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  20. The Swede

    The Swede -89 TTA 7 sec car

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    Thanks Kendall!

    I guess that i'm gonna be a pita here since i'm gonna ask alot here.....:D

    Any one that knows typical flow numbers on the full ported Champion heads?
     
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