Help-Going to do a budget rebuild the target is 11.99 at least once.

Discussion in 'Engine Tech' started by TURBOPOWERED68, Oct 24, 2008.

Help-Going to do a budget rebuild the target is 11.99 at least once.

Discussion in 'Engine Tech' started by TURBOPOWERED68, Oct 24, 2008.

  1. TURBOPOWERED68

    TURBOPOWERED68 David

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    Going to do a budget rebuild the target is 11.99 at least once.

    The block that I am going to use is an 84-85 block that is what I already have collecting dust in the garage plus it would reduce my down time.
    BTW How do these blocks (84-85) hold up?
    Back to my rebuild
    1-30 over because it needs it -I have a set of used 30 over pistons that I picked up from Cotton’s about a year ago.
    Which main bearings should I use (can you please post part #’s)?
    Which piston rings should I use?
    Do I need a roller cam? For 11.99s and reliable
    Or
    Would a reg. cam work and last?
    The heads will be done after I am done with the Short block so I am not even thinking about them now.

    But I would like to get the most I could from the Block because I will be using all of my stock stuff until it brakes or goes bad and I HAVE TO REPLACE IT.
    Thanks for the help guys.
    David
  2. Grumpy

    Grumpy Thread killer

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    why not figure out what the problem is with the motor in the car now :confused: .. stock motors go in the 11 easy :cool:
  3. TURBOPOWERED68

    TURBOPOWERED68 David

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    I gave that allot of thought
    But the lifters are starting to make more noise and just at start up and the blow-by is increasing.
    The engine doesn't knock or smoke now but I don't want to wait for it to break something. I figure if I save it now when I get to rebuild this one (the one on the car now) it would cost me less.
    and the motor has about 170k miles :eek: on it now.

    BTW Grumpy, any advice you have please share it with me I need all of the help I can get
    Thanks
    David
  4. Grumpy

    Grumpy Thread killer

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    reliable, cheap, or fast... Pick two!

    budget doesn't belong in a performance build.

    seriously doin a motor over isn't cheap.. first thing that comes to mind is the cam .. roller cams are $800+ . oil nowadays sucks to put it in simple terms . You may try rebuilding your 86/87 stocker over. You might get away with a honing/rings and bearings.. Stock motors can take a beating with NO detonation. :cool:
  5. Just a Six??

    Just a Six?? OK! Who Farted??

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    You can run the flat tappet cam in the 11's easily. Banning Ran 10's on his! Proper Breakin is the Key with them. The 85 block can take it. I have one I may do it to as well just to experiment. All used old stuff or as much as possible & see what it takes doing it the cheapest possible way with parts to machine work. Stock caps etc. I think 11.90 will be no problem for 100 runs but NO Detonation!!! Thats the Killer!!

    Altho, as Dan said, why not pull your motor & just fix it right & use the money you would have spent? Makes sense if your on a budget!
    Good Luck!! Cheers!
  6. 87bigcut

    87bigcut Member

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    You definitely do not need a roller cam to go 11.99. Flat tappet cams are just fine IF you do a proper break in. I, at the recommendation of some others, went with Erson flat tappets on the last 2 builds. I spoke to them on the phone and they have reversed the taper on the 3e exhaust lobe which is the most common lobe going flat.

    That being said, I know people that love the comp cams 212/212, and the edelbrock 204/214. It is all in the setup and break in.

    Joe
  7. Grumpy

    Grumpy Thread killer

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    guys on the roller cam thing.. I have had a few cars ate the flat tappet cams after 5k miles .. does a 11 sec car "need" a roller to go 11s ??? hell NO !!! BUT if ya want something that will be trouble free and not worrying about eating a lobe because of the crap oil now a roller is the better part.. BUT hey its YOUR time AND $$$$.. do as you wish .. opinions opinions :p
  8. garrett

    garrett Member

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    cam

    I just put in a fresh rebuild on my 87 national. I used a Postons 107 flat tappet cam. I used Royal Purple break-in oil + a bottle of ZDDP. I ran it at 2000 RPM for 25 minutes. I'll let you know how it goes. Hopefully it will be durable.
  9. TURBOPOWERED68

    TURBOPOWERED68 David

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    No doubt you and Dan are correct. If it was a miss fire or the other stuff I have been dealing with, but I think I have solved those issues
    How do I Tune out Blow-by
    And loud lifter noise at start up and light lifter noise at idle? That tells me its time but I could be wrong.

    But this is “The Story”
    3 motors and 2 cars
    My 87 Virgin “T” has a HARD LOW END KNOCK.
    And I want to put a year correct Block back into that car if the current block is no good.
    So the 86-87 block out of my Chevelle gets pulled Rebuilt and dropped into the “T”
    The 84-85 Block gets rebuilt and dropped into the Chevelle
    And the spare engine that came out of the “T” collects dust in the garage until I need it

    So with all of that! Rebuilding the 84-85 block and dropping it into the chevelle in one weekend I think will be worth it.
  10. TURBOPOWERED68

    TURBOPOWERED68 David

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    Which Roller cam would you recommend?
    30 over
    Mild work on the heads
    Champion ported intake
    A true DD and once month (in the summer) at the track with lots of 5 hour long trips all year long.
  11. Just a Six??

    Just a Six?? OK! Who Farted??

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    Well, since this is Budget Build, I still think you have NO Problems using the 85 block & many would agree while many think they are crap! I really dont get that one?? They say Nickel content buts its within about 1%-2% from what I read? Plus this isnt a Race Motor! Its a Daily driver correct?

    As for the cam I only know in 5 engines altho LOW miles except the stocker None wiped a cam? Yet I hear of Many who do?? Who can say why 100%?? Why do stockers last??????? Maybe bad oil?? Maybe just bad cams these days?? I have always used Erson Cams & never a problem up to 6K miles?? Sold a few to guys & never a problem so far?? Again maybe at 10K they wipe? Altho, I believe from reading & my limited knowledge that the Breakin is Very Important. As for the oils, add some EOS Every Oil change as I do. Use Dino Oils & I like Rotella myself. Never the Synthetic stuff for me but to each his own. I can only say what worked for me. Thats it!
    Build it up & make sure it gets a Proper Breakin. I am Betting it lasts for you!
    Good Luck!

    PS: Then take your time & build the 87 as you want exactly. Thats what I did & went Roller this time. lets see how it lasts but at 2K the bearings look New! I mean like Brand New! Maybe something to these rollers OR I got Lucky!! :)

    PS: For a DD I would go Erson 208/208 & GM Lifters so its quiet. Steve Wood turned me onto them & I think he knows a Heck of a Lot more than I do!! Altho, the Erson lifters that come with it are probably decent enuf but always had GM on the shelf to use in my case.

    PPS: Grumpy knows 10x what I know about these cars But I'm saying what worked for me. I push them pretty hard at times so lots of boost is not uncommon at the track along with limited knowledge of tuning most times! Altho, I'm learning!! :)
  12. SouthernCal GN

    SouthernCal GN I come in peace....AK AK

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    Small cam- 208 or 210- will do the trick.

    Add a properly prepped and built longblock (stock specs are fine), mix in a converter matched to the turbo, and stir in some alky.

    Have fun!
  13. 88 CuttyClassic

    88 CuttyClassic The Enviromental Hitman

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  14. TURBOPOWERED68

    TURBOPOWERED68 David

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    It’s almost a year, how Did it go? OR How is it going?

    I haven't done the rebuild yet (they call me "Procras") I am still going with the '85 Block it should be in the machine shop in a few weeks.
    The NEW target for the Regal is 11.50s at Full weight with cold AC in the Hot days and Heat in the Cold days.
    Do i NEED an engine girdle or Steel caps for 11.50s?
  15. bison

    bison Moderator Staff Member

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    As close to stock as you can get roller cam. Sealed power rings, king bearings, make sure the block is prepped well. No cheap hone jobs. They are not weaker than any other production rwd block. Plan on spending $ 2000 including the cam or scrap the idea
  16. TURBOPOWERED68

    TURBOPOWERED68 David

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    $2000.00 is not a bad number.:biggrin:

    But The port and Valve work will push that up some.
    I should be digging stuff out next week.
    I’ll post up some before and after pictures of every part that goes to the machine shop.

    Is there anything "special" I should do to the engine or parts?
  17. Phoneguy

    Phoneguy Cometic HG stress tester

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    Make sure you use a machine shop that KNOWS these motors!!!
    Ask them what tolerances they will be using, if they don't know...RUN!!!

    Give Bobby at RPE a call and see what his costs will be, you may be suprised. You can't go wrong with him. He is in Hartford CT. GREAT guy to deal with.
    Good luck

    Bryan
  18. TURBOPOWERED68

    TURBOPOWERED68 David

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    WOW (October 24th, 2008, 09:04 AM)

    Talk about moving at a snails pace :redface:
  19. charlief1

    charlief1 Just another kinky six Staff Member

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    I know your pain David.:redface: Three years and I finally got the car into the shop. I doubt I'll make Noble but I really am trying to get her done now.:biggrin:
  20. TURBOPOWERED68

    TURBOPOWERED68 David

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    My short attention span combined with my indecisiveness and the idea of having an endless amount of time kills me.
    For example i want to redo the Chevelle So i am going to pull the motor and trans and drop it in the Regal But to do that i have to do a bunch of small, time consuming and money hungry things to the Regal Which will most likely mean that the Chevelle will sit for a few years:mad: But at least i'll be in the Regal.
    The biggest problem that i have is that the shop is 45 minutes away and by the time i get to the garage/shed i don't want to do ship.

    I will at least hit the track one more time with the Chevelle in street tires before i take it apart so that i can compare it to the Regal. I am also dieing to feel the 3.42s behind my current set up.

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