The Ultimate Turbo Anti-lag System

With the launch much harder now, the boost curve is going to need some work. I gained almost two tenths between two back to back runs with a simple change to the boost control curve, and I'm far from having the boost curve finalized, so I'm pretty excited about that. Plus the wheelie bars need some dialing in too. There's a little more in her at this boost level. After I'm tapped out, I'll start creaping the boost level up on the top end until I max out the fuel supply system. Then, it will be time to rig up another fuel pump.

Heck. This turbo is just starting to come alive at 28 psi. You could even say that I've just reached a good base minimum tune, engine and chassis wise, for this combination. It's only going to get better from this point forward.

I give you credit for over coming a problem with some out of the box thinking. Trying new things are how innovations come into a sport like this, but I do have to say that I guess I missing the point. You talk about compromises that the class racers make to get thier combo's to work but this seems even more like a compromise than having a matched combo that works. You have a Stage motor with a 91mm turbo, 2 different power adders on straight methanol in a lite wieght race car with wheelie bars that is not as fast as a heavier stock blocked TSM car with a 70mm turbo. If you get the car lined out and it runs 8.0's with a crazy MPH then I will understand the complexity of your set up, but there are stock block cars with stock ported iron heads and a stock ECM with a single power adder running similar times so its hard for me to see the value in going a much more difficult path to get high 9 second performance. Now if the challenge to try to make the big turbo work is what you are after then I understand that but from the sound of your posts it seems like you are saying that a set up like yours is the way to go and everyone else is doing it the "hard way" and if that's the case I don't see that at all.

I see your point. Without a timeslip in my hand, the vast majority of people that are following my project would get the same idea. It's hard to convey to people what is in store for the project because there is a lot of tuning science that many people just don't have a grasp on enough to realize what the true potential is here. Not just the potential of what's in store for the project, but also what kind of hurdles this project has had to overcome just to get to this level.

Number one, you say I have a Stage setup. My definition of a Stage motor is a Stage II headed motor. I am not running Stage II heads. God have mercy if I was! I am running simple M&A heads with 1.835/1.5" valves. That's the size they came from the factory with. This hurts me. In this day and age, I consider these heads a big disadvantage compared to the head science that is out there now.

Number two, I am running 224 cubic inches. This hurts me. Most would stroke for better torque and more cubes. Cubes is always king, turbocharged or not.

Number three, I'm running a very low compression for a blown engine that is burning pure methanol. 9.25:1. This hurts me. Most blown alky setups are at 10 to 12:1.

Number four, I'm running a large overlap camshaft. This hurts me. If the object is quick spool up time, the centerlines are spread to help control overlap.

Number five, I'm running a comparatively tight torque converter. This hurts me. You would generally run a higher stall to help with spool up.

Number six, I have paired nitrous oxide with methanol. This hurts me. This is not the most efficient way to use nitrous oxide to help with spooling a turbo. Gasoline would have been the wiser choice. I didn't use gasoline because that would have meant having to add another complete fuel system to my complicated mess.

Number seven, I am using a turbo the size that would make large V8s cringe with fear. That is hurting me. The exhaust back pressure to intake boost ratio is better than 1:1. This is hurting me. The weight of the rotating assembly of the turbo is amazing. This is hurting me.

Number eight, I'm using long tube exhaust primaries of a large diameter. This is hurting me. Most would argue that long tube primaries is a very big disadvantage when it comes to spool up time.

Number nine, I don't know of anyone else that has put together a combination like mine and made it work to this level. This has been uncharted territory with no chance of guidance from people with any experience with this type of setup. This has hurt me.

Number ten, I don't really consider a 3200 lb car real light. I would call it a mid-weight car. I'm sure tube chassis cars are much lighter. This is hurting me.

Number 11, I'm burning 100% methanol fuel. I had zero experience or knowledge of burning methanol before I started this project, and have had zero help from people that might have had some knowledge. That has hurt me.

Number 12, I don't have any experience building alcohol racing engines. This was my first one and I got no help from other people putting this combination together. That has hurt me.

So, those are the major hurdles I've had to overcome. To consider that I've reached a point where I'm just at the front door of realizing what this monster can do, I feel pretty good about things. Those that can't appreciate it, just don't have the knowledge behind them to realize what it took to get to this level and what it's going to take to go forward from here. I can't blame them for not understanding. There is a vast amount of knowledge, most learned by doing, that would be required to fully understand.

I have never said that my configuration was better or superior to any other. The whole intent of sharing my project with you all was to hopefully open someone's eyes to the fact that there are many ways to accomplish the same task. I just picked one that challenged me to the maximum of my abilities, instead of just throwing someone elses recipe into my car. Many of the skills I now possess is due to this project. It has taught me volumes.

Realize that a lot of those listed items in the previous post do hurt me where it comes to spool up time. On another note, many of those items help me immensely on the top end. That is the trickery of my combination. Again, a lot of research to understand how that works. I've covered all of it in the multitude of posts I've made on this site.

Given that explantion I understand better what you are trying to do. I was under the impression you were trying to say that your set up was the "no compromises" way of building a combo. I can respect the fact that you are striking out on your own in uncharted territory and that you are making this a learning experience so now I "get it" better, it was just when I first read about your combo I was thinking "that's a tough way to get high 9's!"

So,... again I state that I've never tried to insinuate that my configuration was superior to another. I've just tried to show that there are other roads less traveled to accomplish the same task. Was my road easy? Heck no. Would I recommend it to others? Heck no. The time and research I went through was very time consuming. I would highly suggest that if your intent is to get up and running as quickly and cheaply as possible to go racing, then contact someone with a proven and cheap combination.

If you're looking to challenge yourself and maybe make a few new discoveries along the way, then the world is open to you for that. All you have to do is commit to the adventure.

High 9s? Do the math. More like high 8s at this present point.

Heck. If I could make something like what I've created work, then that just goes to show how much grey area is out there that could work also. It doesn't have to be just one persons combination that can do the job is what I'm trying to say.

Sorry typo

I realize that a lot of people don't have the same vision of the potential for this car. I can't blame them, I've been closely tied to this car for years and I can't help but realize the potential.
Here is my attempt to convey a small glimpse into what's in store for this car.
If you fast forward to 7:02 minutes in this video it will take you to the launch.

This was one of the first runs with the 91mm and the new boost controller. The AMS1000. I had no idea where the wastegate spring adjustment needed to be and what pressures to use with the boost controller and the CO2.

Bear in mind that the 60 foot was very poor. This is even before I really started to concentrate on tuning the launch.
The ET on this pass ended up being in the high 6s. You can see I coasted most of the way and still beat the car in the other lane.
The boost level was higher than my datalog software could record. I figure it spiked between 32 to 35 psi.
Enjoy.

YouTube - DRW / Buick V6 Alky v3.2 20L video test

I figure, even with a little tuning experience under your belt, you should be able to get a sense of the horror that's in store for me.

Wow!!!! Did I get rise out of you If you had read any of MY POSTS you would see that i dont tune my car. Because like you im not a tuner, I have been seeing your posts for a VERY LONG time at your weight you were far from done with your t76 your car is very light , but this gets back to tuning!! so you say your at 28 lbs of boost with the 91, like Otto (the tuner) said at that boost level the car is way down on power but this gets back to the tuning, I knew you would be at the point your at now long ago, you have a 1600 hp turbo and your making 900. Il tell ya right now, the 10 lbs of boost you may have left is not going to get you 700 hp so you better look more closely at the tune or maybe go see my guy . Speaking of putting your foot in your mouth you may want think more carefully before asking for congrats for something thats is lacking. You can think out side the box all you want but dont come around looking for a pat on the back when your still in devolopment mode "dont sing it bring it"

Tuners:

Cal Harline

Ken Duttweiler

Otto

Jack Cotton

Don Bailey

Petty

Job Spetter

Dale Cherry

Have any of these tuners contacted you about your revolation according to you, you have changed the procedure of putting together a turbo car and have been looking for congrats for your achievments. Your numbers don't lie and at your weight with that turbo that car should be in the 150 mph area 1/8 mile. its far from it So again dont come around with your BS looking for congrats...

I think this says it all don we are not your students your posts make sound like your a teacher their is a lot of smart people her that arnt tuners but know their game

You just keep showing us your backside.
Just keep watching, Tony. You might learn something.

If you're not learning anything, then why do you bother reading my posts?

This why i say you act like a teacher, i have to learn from your posts ??
I been around this game a long time my friend when you say somthing valid i will listen but not to this point.

What do you think should be my next move with the car? I greatly value the opinion of a learned fellow such as yourself. If you have something valuable to offer, I'm all ears.

Don, I have never seen you write up the issues that are hurting you in one post. I am assuming you are going to get another set of heads and a bigger CI engine in the future since the one you have is holding you back. I assume you are using the current bullet as a test mule so when the big stick goes together the learning curve will be quicker. Am I correct on this??

Bingo! You're a smart man.

So, if I take S2V6RACER's advice and move what I've learned to a 274 cid platform with my dream heads, Stage II heads, what do you think the results might be?

Any guesses? Tony? HOT ROD-GN? Don't start being shy, now.

Not as fast as Tony has been 400#s heavier with a T4 88 Turbo,thats my guess.(Personally I think the 91 MM turbo has old technology and does not have the potential your hoping for,and you will be lucky to see anything near 1400 hp,though you may prove me wrong)
Looks at Ted's car,he is on Tony's heals with Stage 1 style heads

I realize you dont have the CI,but don't think that Tony has not been through his own learning curve with his combo. He was Running a I belive 94MM turbo for years and never put down the ET or MPH his 88 has.
Try and find video of Tony, he has a matched combo that can be easily pro- tree raced with a very efficient convertor and I have seen his car run high 8s at 155+ and i can tell you this,he was no where near 28#s of boost, and It not CI that is getting him where he is.

So Tony's also running 224 cid?
I hope that 155+ means a lot faster than 155.