Discussion in 'GUNS & AMMO' started by TT/A1233, Jan 16, 2004.
thanks for sharing, i tryed to email him and get that stuff, but it said his email wasnt working....
I'd like to know the story of the Caprice. Back seat contained a woman, a child and an old woman...
Who cares? I'm with Bruce on this one. I would have taken great pleasure to have been the one that turned that family into hamburger meat. The trunk is probably filled with explosives and I'll bet they tried to run a roadblock. That's how they do it over there, the people you least suspect are the ones that are gonna kill ya.
John said that was an Iraqi family "in the wrong place at the wrong time" and it was US ground fire responsible for their demise.
Re: Re: I can say...
I would like you to consider something. The way you feel toward arabs is the same way a lot of arabs feel about us.
The big difference? We have the stealth fighters, the special forces, etc and they don't. And since they don't, about the best they can do is strap that C-4 to their body and try and blow up as many americans/coalition troops as they can when they blow themselves up. You on the other hand can look at the pics and clips that have been provided and pat yourselves on the back and think how great all that death and destruction is?
I've got a question - have you, Cartman, or Bruce ever personally ended someone's life? How about served in the military? I'm just curious.
I'd like to add a little perspective to this. I and a few others here are charged with protecting and if need be taking someone's life. I wouldn't relish killing another human being but this is the profession I chose and if need be I will. I will also sleep well at night knowing I did the right thing. I suspect most of our service men and women have the same feeling. War is hell. There is no other way to describe it and I've never been near a battlefield.
I don't hate Arabs and I don't believe anyone on this board does. I hate and would kill anyone for any reason who's trying to take me or my family out such as Muslim extremists. Practice your religion as you will but do it peacefully. The extemism that goes along with some Muslim sects teaches that if you don't believe in our religion that's fine you may practice your own but you must believe Islam is superior to any other and if you don't you die. Now there's something wrong with that.
The extemism that goes along with some Muslim sects teaches that if you don't believe in our religion that's fine you may practice your own but you must believe Islam is superior to any other and if you don't you die. Now there's something wrong with that. [/B][/QUOTE]
WOW, where the hell did you hear that? I am christian but have many muslim friends and have studied Islam and NEVER have I heard anything like that. Yeah their might be people who FEEL that way but there is nothing in the koran that states this. Thats like saying some extremist christians read into the bible saying kill all others and stating that this is waht christianity teaches.
I think we might be stating the same thing but dont get the extremists ideas mixed up with the muslim faith. Like the Pres. said this is a war against terrorists not the muslim faith.
Either way if those 3 men in the video posed a danger to american troops, they got what they deserved....and a big thanks to our troops, god knows I coudnt do it.
Wonder how many of the guys involved in that action will have recurring nightmares of killing innocent people like the Vets that shot up villages in Vietnam? Hope Bush includes some help for all the War on Terror veterans that are being created. Many of these Vets comming back will have lots of physical and emotional isssues that will need to be addressed, not by their wives and kids being beaten but by medical help.
I think you misunderstood my point.
I stated Muslim extremists and certain Islamic sects believe this. I know the Koran doesn't teach this but radical Islamic sects not only believe it but are teaching this doctrine to children in Saudia Arabia, Kuwait and other middle eastern countries. I don't know this for a fact since I haven't seen it with my own eyes but have seen news stories on this on CNN and Fox News.
I agree, this isn't a religious war (contrary to what the other side has declared) but it's a war against terrorists whether they're Islamic or Christian. Case in point; Timoty McVay.
Thanks for your support
I really want to thank all of those in the Buick community for their support of what we're doing over here, even if you don't support the President at least the soldiers themselves are getting it and that's all that matters to most of us here. I don't even think that I've had one negative comment sent my way.
I've been here for almost a year now and I am so looking forward to getting back home to my family, but the support we've recieved from everyone has made my stay here a bearable one. So many things that I've taken for granted before in the past that seemed like nothing to me are now looked at in a whole new way. Just rambling, but sometimes things like this put lifes small things into perspective for you.
Again a big "Thanks" from all of us over here for the support that you have given us. Remember, freedom is not free.
I will keep all posted on what's going on here from time to time.
SGT John A. Chapman
I'm saddened it has to be this way, but I'm glad we have a realistic leader that realizes these problems have to be taken care of. I fully believe everything Colin Powell shared with the UN council on Husseins building of WMD's. I don't believe the huge missle silo he was building was the start of an Iraqi space program. I don't just think he was just playing around with the robotic planes he was trying to equip to spread chemical weapons. I do believe he has massive amounts of chemical weapons that were probably transported to Syria or somewhere. If not why didn't he just provide some sort of proof that the stuff had been destroyed. This guy was in direct violation of UN sanctions and had been for years and wasn't gonna stop anytime soon. He thought no one was gonna do anything about it. The UN was never gonna do anything until this guy launced a frickin nuke at somebody. On top of that he was offering all these terrorists organizations sanctuary in his country. Theres only one thing guys like him understand and its not Gandi like tatics. Its overwhelming force. Thank god for GW and the US military. Take care of business and come home safe.
I've been following this thread with some interest since my oldest son was in the Army (101st Airborne) but got out a few years back. I've been hesitant to post but I can not sit silent any longer.
To the people who are so defensive for the poor 'victims' that happen to be Iraqi's and are so quick to condemn our soldiers who do their job in Iraq, I only have one question - Do you REMEMBER 9-1-1? Do you even remember THOSE pictures???
We would not be in Iraq killing IRAQI SOLDIERS with Appache 30mm cannon if we had not been attacked first. Those people that you see dying or dead of Arab/Iraqi descent may look like poor innocent civilians only because you do not see them wearing uniforms or because they are walking around trucks and tractors.
However - and this is important - those people you see dying in our gun sights are soldiers, who simply do not wear a uniform out of choice, for ease of infiltration, or to blend in but make no mistake - they are soldiers. Yes, sadly, some of their dead are innocents who are casualties of war but that can not be helped - whan the opposing army chooses to cloak itself as innocent civilians, then that is the price people are going to pay.
I'll be very clear here - women and children have no place in war; but the Iraqi "Freedom Fighter" - aka, terrorist - comes in all shapes, sizes, and sexes. But in THIS war, you can not tell them apart and that is by their design and strategy.
You've all seen the pics - little children, mothers, sisters, grandmothers, etc with AK-47's and C4 belts around their waists, all with the express intent of killing American GI's.
Don't go making them all noble and such - all they have to do is lay down their arms and assist the Coalition Forces in the rebuilding of their country and the establishing of a free and democratic government. But if anyone is walking around with an RPG or even a pistol, OR, they are associating with those that do or are even acting suspiciously by either association or action - THEY ARE SUBJECT TO ATTACK BY THE COALITION FORCES.
You may not like it but war IS hell. Often, innocent people die - look at what happened in WWII; it is never pretty and it is NOT only the soldiers who pay the ultimate cost. Actually, in WWII, more citizens died than soldiers. Destroy the will to fight by decimating the opposing armys is always the first strategy but that does not always work and WILL NOT WORK in a war setting that invites and encourages gorrilla warfare, like Viet Nam, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
Life is precious, whether it is an American life or that of an Iraqi. I take no pleasure in seeing anyone die. But like Patton said - "No soldier ever won the war by dying for his country - he won it by making the other poor bastard die for his".
That is what war is all about people and this is WAR. People are going to die. Just because we are fortunate enough to own Appaches and AWACS and Steath technology does not cause my heart to bleed for the Iraqis or makes me feel the least bit guilty for having such power and technology - it makes me proud to be an American. If our soldiers kill one or a thousand and one of those guys with RPG's, one more young woman with C4 bandoliers around their bodies and a suicide bombing in her prayers, or another teenager who would shoot a pistol at an Abrams tank, then so be it. They are getting what they deserve.
Either their faith or trust is misplaced - Allah will not protect them when they are in the sights of a 30mm cannon. Their stones hurled at tanks, their suicide bombers killing soldiers and even fellow Iraqis will not deter us. And their showing of graphic pictures of citizens who were killed by our bombs and our soldiers will not cause us to waver. They must either lay down their arms or they will die with them in their hands - hands that are smeared with the blood of 3000 Americans who died that sunny September day.
We do not fight to kill - we fight to stop the killing, especially of our own. Never forget that. Never forget those who died on those airliners and in those towers and on the ground and in the Pentagon on 9-1-1. The Terrorists and their terroristic activities are the reasons you see people butchered by 30mm cannon in night vison. Their 'cause' did not care how many Americans died in those towers, buildings and planes; actually that was their plan to attack the innocent, not our military. So I do not care how many of them die either, just as long as it's enough to bring our soldiers home.
This is war and we will take it to them in every quarter, in every street, and in every town. We owe it our own innocent victims.
Re: My view
I appreciate you and your son's Patriotism. I never forget the Americans that died in 9/11. One thing that seems to me that is getting all muddled up is the fact that the Iraqis didn't fly the planes into the World Trade Center. Al Cida(sp) terrorists lead by Osam did. It would be much easier for me to jump on the kill them all bandwagon if there was a undeniable link to the Iraqi's, unlike our "friends" the Saudi's or Yemem or if Sadam used some kind of WMD on our troops. I have friends that are Arabic Muslum and Arabic Christian. Both came to America to get away from the killing in there countries (Iran and Lebenon). It is a real mistake to lump all those peope that happen to live in the Middle East into the catagory of terrorist or willing to kill any American. They love their spouses and children like we do. Many of the regular peope in the Middle East just want a regular life without being associated with the extremist Muslums.
It would be much easier for me to jump on the kill them all bandwagon if there was a undeniable link to the Iraqi's, unlike our "friends" the Saudi's or Yemem or if Sadam used some kind of WMD on our troops.
So you would rather deny intellegence information and wait for the Iraqi's to kill some of our people with WMD's rather than take care of the problem before they do. Hmmmmm.... Well me ... I agree with GW, its a time to act and not react. We saw what happens when you don't do anything about these guys on 9-11. I hope we never have to learn that lesson again. I sure would hate to be one of the american soldiers or civilians who would have to die before you would get off your butt and do something. Lets see ... uh we know there making a nuclear silo and trying to get ahold of the technology to build a missle but lets wait till they actually try to use the thing, that way we will feel justified to act and have the UN's support. Unfortunatly D.C. or somewhere will be slag but at least Pronto will feel better about it. Geez...... How quickly they forget.
Uh, last time I checked NONE of our troops were killed by a WMD in Iraq and believe me if they did I would be the first to push the button on them. I guess our "intellegence" isn't THAT intellegent. My point is simply just because a person is Arabic doesn't automaticly make them evil.
North Korea does have WMDs and is willing to sell them to anyone. To me they seem much more of threat to the US than Sadam ever did. Too bad they don't have any oil
Why does it have to take a WMD? What about the financial backing that was already proven? Isn't this enough?
One problem at a time. Iraq can't be treated exactly the same as North Korea. It's a different monster altogether and they'll get theirs too, be patient. It may not be militarily but things will change there too.
Let's not forget Saddam had 12 years to comply with a cease fire agreement he signed in 1991. Remember that? Here's a hint..."Operation Desert Shield" and "Operation Desert Storm". That wasn't a "truce" or anything else. It was a temporary halt in hostilities and that agreement he signed outlined a multitude of requirements he was to abide by. Did he abide by them....NO. Twelve years and numerous UN sanctions and he still thumbed his nose at us and the UN (and the cease fire agreement). What would you expect?...us to keep asking him to abide by the cease fire agreement with no consequences. C'mon....
Re: My view
You are correct. Absolutely. However, in the war in Iraq, you can not tell the peace loving Iraqi national from the Al Queda terrorist - until they pull the gun or the detonator. No one here is lumping Arabs or Muslims in one boat. My post was relative to the terrorists and their supporters as well as towards those that seem to "feel" something for the TERRORISTS WITH THE RPG that were about to take out the Appache. Those dead ragheads were certainly fathers, and sons and brothers of someone - but they were there to kill Americans. Enough said - they're better off dead and they got what they deserved.
Well, I never said "Kill them (Arabs/Muslims/Iraqi's/Etc) all" - I said kill every stinkin' one of them with hostile intentions against freedom, democracy, the peace process, their own Iraqi neighbors, and our soldiers in the field. Scum like that do NOT deserve to live. Period. Link or no link - you draw your sword, you will die by the sword, sooner or later.
And, why wait for an undeniable link? We're ALREADY seen the link - just look at what happened to the Kurds after the Coalition forces left Iraq after Desert Storm. Saddam used nerve gas and Chemical agents ON HIS OWN CITIZENS! Look at what happened to the peace loving Iraqi nationals who aided the Coalition forces in Desert Storm - they were tortured mercilessly and killed savagely, often in front of their own families before their families were then killed.
Terrorists and their kind have NO PLACE on this earth. Like GWB said, if you are not with us, then you are against us. You either choose peace and peaceful coexistence or you choose terrorism. The Iraqi people - the true, peace loving Iraqi Muslims - do not support Al Queda or Saddam. THEY are not our targets - their P.O.S. neighbors who hide road side bombs, bomb vests, and RPG's are our tartgets. THEY are the ones in the crosshairs and I sleep better knowing that we have fine men and women in the Middle East looking for them. They deserve the violent and horrific deaths we saw in the Appache video.
I never said otherwise and couldn't agree with you more. The ones I say target and destroy are just like those you saw butchered by the Appache (and deservedly so) whose intent is to kill anyone and anyone who doesn't agree with them. I don't care if they are fathers, sons, brothers, sisters, daughters, or otherwise - if they intend to raise an RPG against our fighting men and women, take them out hard and fast.
The ONLY good terrorist is a dead one. The ones we saw die in the video died by the sword they chose to raise.
Nice job, US Army. Nice job indeed.
Pronto.... Maybe, I misunderstood or you mistyped your post. I took it that you did not believe we should take action against Hussein unless he used the weapons we accused him of having against us. If this is how you feel, I respectfully disagree.
I do agree that this is not a war against all arabicsl. This is a war against terrorists and a terrorist government that eventually was going to strike against us. Hell its a war to free some arabics in my opinion.
If you are also implying that Iraq has no WMD's and that GW is on a wild goose chase, I have to definatly disagree. Colin Powell presented irrefutable proof to the UN that Saddam was indeed knowingly violating UN sanctions. Everybody was on board with us until Saddam started passing out oil agreements like candy. He basically bought off our allys and thats pathetic and rather than buy them back, which is what they wanted, we went ahead and did the job. Now the pathetic suckers want a piece of rebuilding the country.
The reason Saddam didn't use WMD's against our troops is simple. He would have totally justified our actions in the court of world opinion which he is smart enough not to do and we would have countered with WMD's of our own as threatened by GW. It would have gained him nothing and lost him everything. I truly believe that he probably transported the bulk of the weapons to Syria or elsewhere since many trucks were seen heading that way when the war started. Anybody who truly believes that Saddam has told the truth(which he has no history of doing) and had no chemical weapons is naive in my opinion.
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