Stock ignition vs distributor set-up

[EVIL87]

wondering when i need to make the change and why?

 

[Alky V6]

I'm targeting 1500-1600 bhp with the new engine with a coil-pack ignition system.

 

[norbs]

wondering when i need to make the change and why?

1. The 2 step won;t work properly with an XFI with the coil pack
2. The wideband will read different between the two combo;s, the waste-spark can confuse the o2 sensor slightly.
3. The distributor uses ball bearing instead of sleeve bearings.
4. msd analog boxes are more reliable than coill pack.modules
5. spark current in factory setup is internally limited no matter what voltage you throw at the module

The module has a tendency to fail from heat usually, and I've seen new NOS ones be bad right out of the box.

 

[turbodaniel]

1. The 2 step won;t work properly with an XFI with the coil pack
2. The wideband will read different between the two combo;s, the waste-spark can confuse the o2 sensor slightly.
3. The distributor uses ball bearing instead of sleeve bearings.
4. msd analog boxes are more reliable than coill pack.modules
5. spark current in factory setup is internally limited no matter what voltage you throw at the module

The module has a tendency to fail from heat usually, and I've seen new NOS ones be bad right out of the box.

is that the 2 step on the xfi or a bailey

 

[turbobitt]

1. The 2 step won;t work properly with an XFI with the coil pack
2. The wideband will read different between the two combo;s, the waste-spark can confuse the o2 sensor slightly.
3. The distributor uses ball bearing instead of sleeve bearings.
4. msd analog boxes are more reliable than coill pack.modules
5. spark current in factory setup is internally limited no matter what voltage you throw at the module.

The module has a tendency to fail from heat usually, and I've seen new NOS ones be bad right out of the box.

1. The 2 step won;t work properly with an XFI with the coil pack - True
2. The wideband will read different between the two combo;s, the waste-spark can confuse the o2 sensor slightly. I don't buy it. No one been able to prove that there is unburnt fuel that managed to survive the combustion process get re-ignited in an absence of oxygen.
3. The distributor uses ball bearing instead of sleeve bearings. And ?
4. msd analog boxes are more reliable than coill pack.modules. Not sure I 100% agree since they introduce other challenges to electronic sensitive devices.
5. spark current in factory setup is internally limited no matter what voltage you throw at the module. What is enough ? What is not enough ?

Sorry Norbs but I need to rebutt.
I'm sure there are advantages but I don't buy into all the claims. Seems like most gains are from replacing old high-mileage defective systems with new MSD/distributers without considering fixing the original problems.

I would also consider the newer modern COP set-ups before making the leap.
Allan G.

 

[TurboBob]

1. The 2 step won;t work properly with an XFI with the coil pack The XFI's internal 2-step wont work, but my 2-step or TR6 system will
2. The wideband will read different between the two combo;s, the waste-spark can confuse the o2 sensor slightly. I'm not sure about this either, do you have data?
3. The distributor uses ball bearing instead of sleeve bearings. This is not an issue, the cam sensor is not used for timing.
4. msd analog boxes are more reliable than coill pack.modules The stock modules and coils have good reliability, 25 year old stock stuff would be suspect.
5. spark current in factory setup is internally limited no matter what voltage you throw at the module This is not really an issue, increased voltage speeds up the charge time of the coil, improving spark energy at high RPM

The module has a tendency to fail from heat usually, and I've seen new NOS ones be bad right out of the box. Everything fails from heat. Some aftermarket modules are crappy, but there are good ones available.

Just weighing in....

 

[norbs]

1. The 2 step won;t work properly with an XFI with the coil pack - True
2. The wideband will read different between the two combo;s, the waste-spark can confuse the o2 sensor slightly. I don't buy it. No one been able to prove that there is unburnt fuel that managed to survive the combustion process get re-ignited in an absence of oxygen. Not claiming anything HP wise but the "tune" will be different" No hard data but I do recall it was off...
3. The distributor uses ball bearing instead of sleeve bearings. And ? I;ve seen them wear oval over time....which is connected to your oil pump shaft/gear increased wear on those components..
4. msd analog boxes are more reliable than coill pack.modules. Not sure I 100% agree since they introduce other challenges to electronic sensitive devices. This is correct, use a good quality ecu and you will be fine.(XFI)
5. spark current in factory setup is internally limited no matter what voltage you throw at the module. What is enough ? What is not enough ? Good point, but if you ever seen the difference in person between a msd7al box/ distributor setup and coil pack spark you would be amazed at the difference ..........

Sorry Norbs but I need to rebutt.
I'm sure there are advantages but I don't buy into all the claims. Seems like most gains are from replacing old high-mileage defective systems with new MSD/distributers without considering fixing the original problems.

I would also consider the newer modern COP set-ups before making the leap. Nothing wrong with COP except the cost involved, it has no wear so its better than a distributor...
Allan G.

 

[kidglok]

Norbs dizzy:


MSD7ALPLUS left/stock coil pack right

Bobs tr6 using waste spark:

 

[norbs]

Here's another pic from my archive...

 

[norbs]

Norbs dizzy:




View attachment 179055

PLUG ON LEFT IS ON MSD7ALPLUS, RIGHT IS FACTORY COIL PACK ................

 

[kidglok]

here is a bwd type 2 coil pack:

and heres the tr-6 (hi-def):

btw those gap extender thingys are 3/4 of an inch wide, and they started to melt with the tr-6 at 6400rpm (main rev limiter was engaging thats why it cut off)

 

[norbs]

What are the exact specs/costs/of the TR6 setup??????

 

[kidglok]

What are the exact specs/costs/of the TR6 setup??????

bob bailey will chime in on the specs, tr-6 is $495 (for that you get a 2step as well) you will need wires and a coil pack to complete it

 

[TurboBob]

What are the exact specs/costs/of the TR6 setup??????

what sort of spec are you looking for? I have some of the manufacturer data, but since its not a "racing" part, they spec things differently.

B

 

[norbs]

what sort of spec are you looking for? I have some of the manufacturer data, but since its not a "racing" part, they spec things differently.

B

Output volts, spark current in MJ , spark duration, .....just a few parameters

 

[norbs]

Output volts, spark current in MJ , spark duration, .....just a few parameters

TTT

 

[TurboBob]

output min volts, measured with a 50pf load, 37kv

spark energy, measured into a 5K resistor in series with a 800V zener diode, 72mJ

secondary peak current, measured into a 5K resistor in series with a 800V zener diode, 75 to 125ma

not sure if these will help you......

Bob

 

[norbs]

Its enough for me to know my msd box has more power, thanks. But do I need more power, I;m not sure....

 

[TurboBob]

glad I could help

 

[norbs]

here is a bwd type 2 coil pack:

and heres the tr-6 (hi-def):

btw those gap extender thingys are 3/4 of an inch wide, and they started to melt with the tr-6 at 6400rpm (main rev limiter was engaging thats why it cut off)

Can you please post a pic of the spark in the spark plug!