Back-up motor on the cheap

[Mike T]

Whenever my car is down for motor work it always ends up being longer than expected because I'm always tinkering with things and trying to make decisions.....not to mention the budget or lack thereof. Meanwhile the car just sits there.

The resolution to this is to have a spare motor that can go in at any time and not have an arm and a leg in it.
Just by luck I found a NA 109 complete for $150.00 stored behind a friends shop. He thinks it had a blown HG so that will need to be addressed. Yesterday I ran the motor on the floor with 1 power wire ran to the distributor and a single gas line from the pump to a gallon of gas......have to love the NA for simplicity.

The motor ran very well so I doubt that it has any major issues. The tentative plan is a "no frills" (less than perfect) rebuild with no visits to the machine shop IE hand/drill honed cylinders, hand lapped valves and hand polished crank if needed. I'll use the NA cam and lifters since they are quiet and the original timing cover since it appears to have good oil pressure. I have an extra set of 100# valve springs and a loose (little worn) double roller that I'll throw on this POS. Not ideal but I know it'll run and who knows it may end up being a good motor.

If the cylinders will go standard.......this forged kit would put the budget around $750.00 (including cost of motor) excluding oil, filter and miscellaneous stuff. The kit photo appears to have other than 9441 HGs but I've got a spare set.


This is just an idea for a spare motor so throw out any " on the cheap" ideas that you guys have.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem-mhp111-000/overview/make/buick

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Add in another $250 to balance it. Add more, if the stock brgs don't attain a reasonable clearance.

 

[TURBOELKY]

I wish I had a spare motor to get my car going. Things move slow around the machine shop and anticipation is killing me. Your idea sounds great.

 

[Mike T]

Add in another $250 to balance it. Add more, if the stock brgs don't attain a reasonable clearance.

Chuck, I have 2 chances at a crank......1st is in the NA motor so who knows if it's rolled turbo crank or a NA, the 2nd would be my original crank that is in good shape @ .010/.010 already.

I considered the balance and I know your right.........this is where I'll be putting on my flame suite.

Bottom line is that balance will be out but in an attempt to keep cost down I'll go on the assumption that the factory job was close and will weigh the new pistons to see if they are at least in the ballpark of the originals.

Also looking back on some of the motors I built as a young man and had no idea that a balance machine even existed ....somehow....ended up with motors that would go and go. One extreme example of dumb stuff.....mostly because I was broke.. was a 302 with 7 cast pistons and 1 forged that I turned close to 7000 on a regular basis.

Recently while sharing my piston story with a club member.....he smiled and confessed that he built a stage motor out of a bunch of mismatched junk parts that went 9.20s over and over again (had 2 oddball pistons).

 

[ijames]

First, in the "old days", balancing wasn't considered necessary if you weren't going over 5500 rpm (that's what I was told by other shadetree mechanics in the 70's I was learning from, anyway ). Second, if the block will stay std bore can you scrounge up six stock turbo pistons? Lots cheaper than your forged pistons, and again, not a high rpm motor so weight isn't an issue. Probably just as strong as the cheap forgings. I have 4 or 5 somewhere in my garage junk pile I grabbed from the scrap pile at a local shop, I'm sure lots of guys who built motors that got bored kept the old ones. Third, the extra rolled fillets on a turbo crank don't make it stronger but they do increase the fatigue life - you can abuse it more times before it cracks. So if that NA crank mags out ok, might as well run it.

 

[Mike T]

Carl, I hear you on the pistons....thought about finding a set of used turbo pistons but the above kit comes with what is essentially the old TRW (including rings) everyone was running years ago.

By just keeping it simple you could conceivably have less in a complete motor than the cost of a roller cam and lifters.....probably no where near the reliability of a 5 k short block but for the intended purpose it will work.

 

[TexasT]

I was under the impression that those trw pistons are quite heavy. I would definitely weigh them or get some specs before I bought em. I like the stock turbo piston route. Buy a couple sets and get to weighing. I bet you could put together a couple sets that were pretty equal. I'd do the 10\10 turbo crank if it doesn't have too much abuse in it already. If you know it has been rode hard I'd go with the na crank. If you can fit It in the budget a pair of billet center main caps and a hone to get it as straight as you can. This might help keep the crank in the block. DOTC ain't no fun.

Clean up some 8445 heads and some good springs and put her together. New timing set and I'd just do victor reinz gaskets for the fuse. Then put the fuel and boost to her. You might not go back to that high dollar stuff. This is way more fun.

Another thing you might consider is the 95 LeSabre 3800 wide bearings. Helps with oiling I'm told.
A piece of glass and sand paper to flatten the end on the oil pump. Hit the block with some rolls to smooth out the stress risers.

 

[larrym]

Its the pins on the TRWs it was to get them close to stock weight to help with balancing.

 

[FASTV6HENRY]

Mike i have a stock Turbo cam out of my car if you want it really cheap just let me know.

 

[Mike T]

Mike i have a stock Turbo cam out of my car if you want it really cheap just let me know.

If you have the lifters and everything was kept in order bring it to the next meeting and I'll take it. Coming from your car I would expect it to be in good shape

 

[Wahoo]

How did this build work out?

 

[Xflatrater]

I have six stock pistons and rods in good shape from my stroker build and rings if I can find them..

 

[Mike T]

How did this build work out?

Other projects keep getting in the way so it's been on the back burner. Your post kind of got me thinking about it again so I dug it out a couple of days ago.
Hooked up an inexpensive oil pressure gauge and started it on the stand. Ran it until it was on the verge of getting hot to get an idea of what oil pressure would be.

Surprisingly the pump and bottom end must be in good shape because it would hold a rock solid 42 PSI @ idle and about 60 PSI around 3k or so.

Was told the motor had bad HG's and that may very well be the case because the bore scope shows water marks/rust on the cylinder walls however it does not smoke and the plugs are a nice tan color.

Hot idle

3k

TRW forged and stock rods purchased from a board member.

 

[Wahoo]

Nice! Glad you're working on it again.

 

[TexasT]

So., is it in the car yet? No fun looking at garage art when you could be behind the wheel. Ya know? Lol

 

[Mike T]

So., is it in the car yet? No fun looking at garage art when you could be behind the wheel. Ya know? Lol

Not yet...for some reason my ambition isn't what it use to be. Was thinking this may be fun since it wouldn't be much money and it would get the car back on the road.

 

[TexasT]

I feel ya. I try to do a little bit here and there to keep me going. But I enjoy driving it so I'm sure you do too. I'll keep checking in if it'll help ya, but I don't want to be a bother. I know my friends prod me and I think it helps. I need to put in a new timing set, so I can put in the new valve springs, so I can put new rubber lines to replace the old "crusty" rubber lines. But first is the bathroom tile project. Always some excuse not to wrench on the car right?
Good scores on the motor and "new"pistons. Keep up the good work.

 

[Mike T]

Rich I may need a fire under me aside from a mountain of other projects my biggest problem is getting caught up in all of the details. If something is not perfect or close to it I lose interest in a hurry.

Here's a good example of hours of examination and hard work that really didn't make a lot of difference. On my good motor a lot of time was spent blueprinting the front cover, setting up pump gears, triple checking bearing clearances and taking the crank to two different machine shops to get the desired finish.
Now after all of that " the junk motor " has the same 40 psi of oil pressure at Idle

Heads for the good motor have been at the machine shop for quite sometime now. Rather than push him I thought slamming this POS together would get the car rolling and maybe learn a few budget minded shortcuts along the way.

 

[Tim Cucci]

I agree with your concept. I'm in the process right now of having two engines. My original standard engine is out of the car and I'm in the process of trying to build the low cost spare 109 NA block that I had bored and line honed a few years ago. I picked up another Turbo crank, rods, and JE pistons ( used ) recently. I did have it all balanced but now I ran into this snag with the JE pistons and stock rods clearance issues. I was under budget real good till that happened. Now I'm back in the machine shop with the rods and pistons. I think you've got a great idea with the self honing , lapping, and polishing. I also reworked my heads with cleaning, lapping, and seals on all valves. Lots of stuff we should do on our own in my opinion.