Direct drum rings

[INEEDAGN]

Short version: had to hone some minor ring wear out of an otherwise cherry drum (from a low mile trans) and it measures about .001-.0015 out of round with a bore gauge. Didn't measure the actual dimension (though I can) but it wasn't a lot of honing. I'm sure it will physically function fine with iron rings but the OCD in me is wondering if there's a better option like a scarf cut or solid Teflon ring from another application. This will be dual fed.

I found another drum that I thought was better to the naked eye but when I measured it for out of round, it was a little worse and just using a dial bore gauge from one drum to another it turns out to be larger and only then do I notice the marks from where it had been honed out before. At least it was free lol.

 

[TexasT]

They are getting hard to find good ones. I know Jake used to post pix of Teflon rings on the center support. Not sure of the source so I used the iron rings on mine.

 

[77 cruiser]

I used the solid teflon ones on mine, but it was 10 years ago. I think I got them from Chris?

 

[11.20n1320]

They are 4l80E center support rings.

 

[Steve V]

Source I use for Teflon is chysler 727 center support rings.

 

[77 cruiser]

Never checked but are they a different size than the accumulator pistons?
Reason I'm asking I was going through some leftovers & found some black teflon rings & some scarf cut rings.
The rings I got may years back for the center support were white with spots on them.

 

[11.20n1320]

The ones I use are white with red dots. They are solid and require sizing to work properly.

 

[INEEDAGN]

so do they make a solid ring for the 727 center support or are they scarf cut?

thanks for the input

 

[Steve V]

so do they make a solid ring for the 727 center support or are they scarf cut?

thanks for the input

Solid-Yes.

The ones from GM trannys are too small. They can be streched to fit but will eventually relax to there orginal size and leak. If it fits in the drum before you size it thats the one to use. I have to thank Richard Clark for that bit of info.

 

[INEEDAGN]

Thank you! Gonna try that route

 

[11.20n1320]

The ones from a 4l60 are too small, the 4l80e work perfectly when sized properly. Have 2 dozen or more units out there for 10 years or more never had a issue.

 

[INEEDAGN]

.....edited incorrect info.....

 

[INEEDAGN]

Update: The solid Teflon rings that Steve V is referring to (which are actually from a 41te) cross reference to the same industry part number as the 4L80e, making a moot point of which is better because they are the same rings. My former boss has tons of them because they are now running a plastic ring in the 4L80e. Plastic ring won't work for us because the 200-4r bore is smaller, he says transgo makes a high temperature scarf cut teflon ring for the 4l80e and he encouraged me to try them in the 200. That advice actually jives with info I got from another source, who claims to run scarf cut teflon in the 200 because of concerns with the white solid teflons losing tension if the trans temp gets too hot. I plan to simply install the solid teflons.

Thanks to all who posted

 

[David Husek]

Short version: had to hone some minor ring wear out of an otherwise cherry drum (from a low mile trans) and it measures about .001-.0015 out of round with a bore gauge. Didn't measure the actual dimension (though I can) but it wasn't a lot of honing. I'm sure it will physically function fine with iron rings but the OCD in me is wondering if there's a better option like a scarf cut or solid Teflon ring from another application. This will be dual fed.

I found another drum that I thought was better to the naked eye but when I measured it for out of round, it was a little worse and just using a dial bore gauge from one drum to another it turns out to be larger and only then do I notice the marks from where it had been honed out before. At least it was free lol.

There is an oversize steel ring available. The bore will need to be machined though. I do not recommend using solid teflon seals. The scarf cut may be a viable alternative, I have them but have not tested them yet. When set up correctly, the stock steel rings have never shown to be an issue at any power level. I guess it is builder preference.

 

[chris718]

Chrysler 604 rings are what is normally used at this location. The 4l80e ring is similar in dimension and has the red speckles which is the addition of fiberglass into the ring which reduces shrinkage. There are other versions made with green speckles but they are hard to locate. These have an even higher fiberglass content than the red type. When the bore is oversize the tension stored in the iron ring does not allow the ring to spin with the drum and this kills the sealing ability of the ring for many obvious reasons.

 

[INEEDAGN]

My understanding of this is that the 604/41te never came with Teflon rings, and can't be had from mopar (I double checked). Mopar 4471874 was iron ring used from 1972 through today on many trans, 727, 904, 500, 604/606 etc. and we have this ring on the shelf. So if you pull up your suppliers catalog you'll find the aftermarket number for the solid Teflon mopar replacement ring is the same as 4L80e regardless of which transmission you're looking up. My former boss has some older solid teflons that are tan colored instead of the white/red speckled but I wasn't sure they'd be better or worse so I didn't take them.

Dave are your solid Teflon concerns based on the wear of the center support ring lands or is it their heat tolerance? Or both? And what is the accepted amount of honing and out of round before you won't run a stock ring and will overbore the drum?

 

[chris718]

My understanding of this is that the 604/41te never came with Teflon rings, and can't be had from mopar (I double checked). Mopar 4471874 was iron ring used from 1972 through today on many trans, 727, 904, 500, 604/606 etc. and we have this ring on the shelf. So if you pull up your suppliers catalog you'll find the aftermarket number for the solid Teflon mopar replacement ring is the same as 4L80e regardless of which transmission you're looking up. My former boss has some older solid teflons that are tan colored instead of the white/red speckled but I wasn't sure they'd be better or worse so I didn't take them.

Dave are your solid Teflon concerns based on the wear of the center support ring lands or is it their heat tolerance? Or both? And what is the accepted amount of honing and out of round before you won't run a stock ring and will overbore the drum?

4 Teflon rings come in the overhaul kits along with a chrome faced ring for the rear of the stator. The tan rings are the early OEM 4L80E rings.

 

[turbobitt]

Are we talking 200R4 or Th400 ? With regards to the solid rings Chris is referring to I been testing those out on my TH400 direct and so far have work OK.
AG.

 

[chris718]

Are we talking 200R4 or Th400 ? With regards to the solid rings Chris is referring to I been testing those out on my TH400 direct and so far have work OK.
AG.

Alan the 2004r will accept the 604 /4L80E rings but needs to be stretched and shrunk to fit. Less than optimum after the trans gets heat cycled a few times. There are exact fit solid Teflon solid and scarf cut rings from a @#$%^& unit that do fit the 2004R center support. I was making them from Delrin years ago, like the 350 steady rest ring, but it was too difficult so went to the @#$%^&.

 

[INEEDAGN]

4 Teflon rings come in the overhaul kits along with a chrome faced ring for the rear of the stator. The tan rings are the early OEM 4L80E rings.

So ones you're referring to in the kits, do they appear to visually be the same as the white/red speckled 4l80e rings or is there really a source for a different ring? Cause the couple places I checked actually show the gm part number for 4L80e as a reference number behind their part number in the catalogs lol. Third from the bottom in this pic

Btw I'm speaking of 200-4r though the 400 should be the same as 4L80e except the 4L80e stator is bigger whereas the 400 they are the same size as center support IIRC.

I'm not trying to sound like an expert, far from it actually, just trying to get to the bottom of whether there's actually a different ring than the 4L80e and I'm all ears if it exists. Thanks for the help guys