how to tune a turbo buick
- Thread starter liv4gnz
- Start date
I did not mean that asking for help on this board will put people out of work. My meaning was that you seem in a very big hurry to get the max from your new car, and I can understand that, but getting the top performance from these cars only comes in two ways..........either you do it slowly with help from friends or you take it to a tuner with a dyno and pay them big bucks to get it done quickly. I have had my Limited for 10 years now and I am still learning.
I know that you have spent tons of money recently, but a Power Logger can speed things up when you have others willing to assist you from a distance. A Power Logger will log all of the data from your car and it will also allow you to post this data that we can replay them on our computers.
We give you links to information so you can learn how to tune your car. It seems that you seek someone to spoon feed you the "magic tune" for your car. If we do that, you will be forced to come back for more and more.
Education is the key with these cars. It is like you asking someone to solve an advanced algebraic equation for you without you ever taking algebra. We are helping you learn algebra (Turbo Buicks), but that takes time.
We are trying to help ya bro.
I know that you have spent tons of money recently, but a Power Logger can speed things up when you have others willing to assist you from a distance. A Power Logger will log all of the data from your car and it will also allow you to post this data that we can replay them on our computers.
We give you links to information so you can learn how to tune your car. It seems that you seek someone to spoon feed you the "magic tune" for your car. If we do that, you will be forced to come back for more and more.
Education is the key with these cars. It is like you asking someone to solve an advanced algebraic equation for you without you ever taking algebra. We are helping you learn algebra (Turbo Buicks), but that takes time.
We are trying to help ya bro.
1st & 2nd gear have more timing. Only 1-1.5* though. There is less load on the engine in lower gears, therefore a little more timing can be used.
Personally I would leave well enough alone with the fuel & timing. Eric's chips are spot on the money with pump gas. You're just asking for problems if you go messing with the settings. If you use race gas, 110+, then you can turn up the timing a couple degrees. Remember, that Scanmaster should show a BIG GOOSE-EGG for timing retard.
Also.... did you read the link I posted above?? You first need to make sure everything is set to it's proper values before you go searching for more power or dicking around with timing & fuel curves.
Personally I would leave well enough alone with the fuel & timing. Eric's chips are spot on the money with pump gas. You're just asking for problems if you go messing with the settings. If you use race gas, 110+, then you can turn up the timing a couple degrees. Remember, that Scanmaster should show a BIG GOOSE-EGG for timing retard.
Also.... did you read the link I posted above?? You first need to make sure everything is set to it's proper values before you go searching for more power or dicking around with timing & fuel curves.
You don't really need an EGT gauge, but it can be a good advanced tuning aid.
+2 on the tuning link (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/TuningBasics.htm), which is where I got the below quote.
Here is a quote from vortexbuicks :
"Now, before we start adjusting fueling/boost (or timing), remember one thing. Detonation is Bad! If your buddy told you that a little detonation is okay, he probably has not had to change head gaskets, or had to buy a new engine- yet. The more boost you run, the deadlier, in small amounts, detonation becomes. Detonation is Bad! A degree, or two, on the shift to second may be okay, although I would prefer none, but, it must go away immediately after the shift and not linger, or increase. Detonation not only damages head gaskets, pistons, rings, piston pins, bearings, and the crank, but, it actually slows down the acceleration of the piston as it tries to reverse the direction of the crank when the piston is pushed down against the normal direction. Just say NO to Detonation.
Look at the EGT recorded on the baseline runs. If it is relatively low, say 1400 degs, and there was no timing retard, raise the boost one pound and make another run. Observe the maximum EGT again. If it is still relatively low, say below 1550 degs, then do another iteration with another ONE pound of boost. Continue this until you either hit 1550 degs, or you begin to see a trace of timing retard. Please note that I chose 1550 degs Fahrenheit as an arbitrary number. Some cars run best at slightly higher temps, but, you will have to find your optimum, safe number by trial and error.
When you see a hint of detonation as evidenced by a slight amount of timing retard, try adding an additional 2# of fuel pressure without changing the boost and see if that makes the timing retard go away and the EGT fall back.
If there is no longer retard, try adding another pound of boost and repeat the process. Once you have arrived at the point where adding fuel does not get rid of the timing retard, I would back up one pound of boost below the last point where there was not timing retard in order to have a little margin for error. Listen to the knock alarm. If it goes off, Lift! Give the engine a chance to fight another day."
QwuickTurbo6
Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
Did you say you already have an alky chip for the kit? If not, I would send the chip back to Eric and have it re-tuned for alcohol. I would suggest having it programed for ~22psi. Slap on the alky kit and throw the alky chip in the car. Youll need to completely re-tune if you get it all running perfect now and then hook up the alky kit. Eric does a great job at getting the chips close with his settings. I would put in the chip, turn on the alky, give the wastegate a few turns and ease into it getting ~19 psi and see if everything is working. Lift is there's any KR on the scan master and add alky if you see knock. If not, increase the boost 1 lbs at a time until you get it where you want. Hook up that alky kit and come back with some scan master numbers!
Ok, I see a pattern here.
Maybe if you were helped on HOW the Buick ECM works and it's relation to the motor - things would be a little more clear.
The stock 02 sensor must be retained. The WB02 is used as a tuning aid and a reference to the driver only. (unless you are running a stand-alone engine management system)
You use the WB02 to cross reference the OEM readings.
As far as timing goes, theCATman nailed it. It's load. The ECM will retard timing on its own when knock occurs. You can actually feel this happening. The car will lay down.
Knock can clearly be heard (if you are running through an exhaust system). It sounds like someone is using a yard blower full of nickels and aiming it at your intake. (or a coffee can full of pennies being shook)
Now even though the ECM will pull timing during detonation, it will do it to a certain extent. When you hear it, see it, feel it - pull your foot out of it.
Methinks, the car you purchased had issues well before you informed us of the problems you were having.
Maybe if you were helped on HOW the Buick ECM works and it's relation to the motor - things would be a little more clear.
The stock 02 sensor must be retained. The WB02 is used as a tuning aid and a reference to the driver only. (unless you are running a stand-alone engine management system)
You use the WB02 to cross reference the OEM readings.
As far as timing goes, theCATman nailed it. It's load. The ECM will retard timing on its own when knock occurs. You can actually feel this happening. The car will lay down.
Knock can clearly be heard (if you are running through an exhaust system). It sounds like someone is using a yard blower full of nickels and aiming it at your intake. (or a coffee can full of pennies being shook)
Now even though the ECM will pull timing during detonation, it will do it to a certain extent. When you hear it, see it, feel it - pull your foot out of it.
Methinks, the car you purchased had issues well before you informed us of the problems you were having.
We can all quit wasting our time for now on this thread. He wrecked something internally on the engine. 
Maybe next time (after the rebuild) he'll start over at the basics like we've been trying to tell him, and go from there. Way back at the 1st reply to him, "rmar" posted a link to a basic tuning guide with value numbers. He blew "rmar" off saying those are just numbers & doesn't help anything. I too posted a very good, more advanced, tuning guide link which also got ignored.
I say whatever.... don't wanna listen, suffer the consequences.
Maybe next time (after the rebuild) he'll start over at the basics like we've been trying to tell him, and go from there. Way back at the 1st reply to him, "rmar" posted a link to a basic tuning guide with value numbers. He blew "rmar" off saying those are just numbers & doesn't help anything. I too posted a very good, more advanced, tuning guide link which also got ignored.
I say whatever.... don't wanna listen, suffer the consequences.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2002
We can all quit wasting our time for now on this thread. He wrecked something internally on the engine.
Maybe next time (after the rebuild) he'll start over at the basics like we've been trying to tell him, and go from there. Way back at the 1st reply to him, "rmar" posted a link to a basic tuning guide with value numbers. He blew "rmar" off saying those are just numbers & doesn't help anything. I too posted a very good, more advanced, tuning guide link which also got ignored.
I say whatever.... don't wanna listen, suffer the consequences.
Couldn't agree more, I must be Nostradamus because about a week ago I told him he was gonna scatter parts.....
turboc87gn
Darkside in Detroit
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2008
dms is short for diamond star motors which are eagle talons mitusibishi eclipses etc..
The thing is lots of this info is interchangeable with all turbo cars buicks have there own funny things and specific tuning tool aka scanmaster but it all leads you to the same info egts o2 voltage and running it fat to start and slowly leaning it out..also bringin boost up and adding fuel and alky till it dosent help anymore and pulling timing are all things he should have learned messing with those cars as i did playing with turbo dodges its all BASICLY the same stuff just different packages and quirks fwd vs awd vs rwd.. Mabye thats why he had such a hard time with the dsm cars.. they are just a lil finikier than turbo regals and harder to work on... a buddy of mine had an eagle talon fwd turbo when we were 19-20 yrs old and we got it down to 13.80s which back then to us was flyin considering our budgets and we made a considerable amount of $$$ victimizing rustangs out on telegraph:biggrin::biggrin: :biggrin:
