The PowerMaster Bleeding Procedure

[monkeyy337]

Changed out the ball today with a NOS one and now the brake light stays on anytime the brake pedal is not being pushed but the car still has excellent brakes. Any more suggestions other then take the bulb out of the light?

 

[monkeyy337]

Correction, the brake light will go out if you pump the brake pedal like before but will come back on if you hit the brake pedal again just like before.

 

[a.j.hogan]

Hey Zeus,bleed powermaster a few times still have a very low peddel ?do i still have air in system? thanks a.j.

 

[ronbuick]

what did you do with the teflon on the bleeders when you got done, did you leaave it
or remove it, if removed any tricks to do so, thanks

Ron

 

[zeus87gn]

Changed out the ball today with a NOS one and now the brake light stays on anytime the brake pedal is not being pushed but the car still has excellent brakes. Any more suggestions other then take the bulb out of the light?

Correction, the brake light will go out if you pump the brake pedal like before but will come back on if you hit the brake pedal again just like before.

Sorry for being late...again.
Monkey, either the acc ball you put on isn't any good or you have a pressure switch issue. I'll vote for the pressure switch.
If you knwo someone that will swap known good parts to diagnose, you will have it made

 

[zeus87gn]

Hey Zeus,bleed powermaster a few times still have a very low peddel ?do i still have air in system? thanks a.j.

Possible.
Is the pedal firm once you feel resistance and the brakes work?
If so, it's probably Ok.
If not, they yes you probably stilll have air.

 

[zeus87gn]

what did you do with the teflon on the bleeders when you got done, did you leaave it
or remove it, if removed any tricks to do so, thanks

Ron

I left the teflon there. If you remove the bleeder to remove the teflon you will get air back in the system.

 

[wiseman]

Bleeding tip #1...

On a fresh install, bleed (cycle) the accumulator before doing your typical bench bleeding. As you will be pumping the pedal to do this, go ahead and hook up your bench bleeding lines and fill both sides of the bowl with fluid. When you pump down the acc, you will be bench bleeding at the same time.

I cannot strees enough that ALL THE AIR MUST BE REMOVED for the acc to function properly. Use a light to look into the fluid to see if there are any tiny air bubbles escaping from the return port (rear port). As the air is removed, the pump up time will be reduced.

Hello, what size fittings (threads) are in the side of the master cylinder that the bleeder lines on a barb thread into? Thanks

 

[Morbid]

I was asking myself the same question last week and re-read the thread several times but couldn't find that out.
I ended up ordering a Dorman 13910 HELP! Master Cylinder Bleeder Kit from Amazon.com which had the correct fittings and worked fine.

1/2"-20 and 9/16"-18 if memory serves were the right ones. I'll look in the tool box out in the garage if you need me to check.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000COCQ8I/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i01
http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-2766-13910.aspx

 

[wiseman]

I was asking myself the same question last week and re-read the thread several times but couldn't find that out.
I ended up ordering a Dorman 13910 HELP! Master Cylinder Bleeder Kit from Amazon.com which had the correct fittings and worked fine.

1/2"-20 and 9/16"-18 if memory serves were the right ones. I'll look in the tool box out in the garage if you need me to check.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000COCQ8I/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i01
http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-2766-13910.aspx

Thanks Morbid,
You were right, the fitting thread sizes are 1/2-20 and 9/16-18. Thanks for the kit P/N. I was wondering about the plastic fittings from a previous thread, once I saw the link you posted, I stopped by O'Reilly Auto Parts and they also had a Master Cylinder Bleeder Kit by Dorman (P/N 13911)_[O'Reilly P/N is MTM 13911]. It is a 15pc set for $9.99.

 

[Morbid]

Glad you got it sorted. I couldn't find the damn thing locally.

I was pressure bleeding the whole system and was sorta put out the the kit only came with one hose but I cut it in half and it was still long enough to reach the bottle I was catching fluid in.

I soaked my fitting, as always, for a day or two before w/my favorite rust busting oil. These fitting hadn't been turned since they were installed over 20 years ago but they came out pretty easy w/flare wrench.

 

[wiseman]

Glad you got it sorted. I couldn't find the damn thing locally.

I was pressure bleeding the whole system and was sorta put out the the kit only came with one hose but I cut it in half and it was still long enough to reach the bottle I was catching fluid in.

I soaked my fitting, as always, for a day or two before w/my favorite rust busting oil. These fitting hadn't been turned since they were installed over 20 years ago but they came out pretty easy w/flare wrench.

I am going to change out my proportional valve this weekend before I bleed the brakes. The one on the car is the old steel one so i am changing it out and replacing it with the brass valve. I will soak the fittings with penetrating oil today and let the oil set in over night.before i begin working. I have two questions:

1. Did you prime the inlet dump port in the bowl? When I tried to prime mine before (this is my 2nd P.M. unit replacement) with the syringe, the fluid was not flowing into the port. So, there was a lot of back pressure pushing back on the syringe so the fluid wasn't being forced into the dump port. I am curious to see what I was missing here.

2. Did you bleed your brakes with the proportional valve depressed?

 

[zeus87gn]

I've never messed with the prop valve on our GN - it's still the original cas iron one - I have a brass one to change out but but it'll get changed out once we get it back on the road
Never bled with the plunger depressed either
What are you calling the inlet dump port? the suction port for the pump?

 

[wiseman]

I read the info on gnttype.org about bleeding the lines with the proportional valve depressed. Sorry, I did mean "inlet sump port". (Autocorrect changed my wording). These instructions for priming the inline sump port came in the box with my rebuilt powermaster unit.

 

[Morbid]

My '05 Audi A4 Ultrasport (6sp manual) requires pressure bleeding both the slave cylinder and brakes (you do them at the same time) so I brought a Speedi Bleed kit (http://www.speedibleed.com/index.htm) for that car and just the GM Adaptor for the Regal.

It uses the air pressure from the tires. All I did was put a little clean fluid in the bowl so it wouldn't run dry when I went to switch the bleeding fittings out and put the lines back in then went to work with the kit.

Yes I do have the tool mentioned in the FSM for depressing the nipple on the prop valve when pressure bleeding. That's the only time the FSM says you need to use it. That is there is no mention of holding the metering valve open or closed when manual bleeding.

I can't find anything in the FSM on priming the inlet sump port on the MC. Maybe they mean you need to add a little brake fluid to it before hooking it up.

 

[wiseman]

Just as reference, here is the scanned copy of the priming instructions that came with my rebuilt powermaster that I was having problems with (mentioned in Post #72).

 

[zeus87gn]

That priming procedure you have there certainly won't hurt a thing
Its forcing some fluid down in the pump vanes to give it a head start when doing the initial accumulator cycling
You would still have to watch your pump run time and not exceed it until you get the accumulator pumped up correctly

 

[wiseman]

Ok, thanks for the input Zeus87gn. The only problem with that, when I was attempting to prime the port, the fluid wasnt going into the port. It like I was trying to push the fluid with syringe into a port that was closed off. I guess when i get home, I will upload the 2nd set of instructions from cardone that came with the rebuilt unit. - just as a reference for everyone. (Just some extra info)

 

[jetmech]

I have a post in the tech section. I may have ran the p/s dry(it was really low the other day) I refilled and pumped down the acc. then turned key on. runs for like 17 seconds. The more i pump the acc down like over 20 pumps the longer the motor runs. the motor never turns back on after its pumped up with key on. I did have some frothy fluid on pump down but after doing that a dozen times it seems to be gone. I still have a soft pedal and brake light comes on for a second and the motor runs for a few seconds on every brake pedal application.

 

[wiseman]

This may be a crazy question, but I just want to be sure....when filling the power master bowl, is the large compartment (with the sump port and accumulator port (inner side towards passenger side)) supposed to be filled also? I don't see a fluid level bar.....