TSA rules discussion

[Thumper]

Let's begin the talk, any new ideas? This discussion is for participants that raced TSA 2014 or 2015.

Thank
Bill

 

[turbodave231]

We need to entice many more owners to participate in this class. I feel that there are many owners who want to keep their GN's and TR's stock but would participate if they felt they had a decent chance of winning. Very few are going to run their factory appearing car against a field that runs 11.00's and it is obvious that only a few guys (and gals) are willing to build a purpose built car just for this class.

I am proposing we change from a Heads-up pro tree to a Sportsman .500 tree.

Some Background: The BSA (Buick Stock Appearing) class started out several years ago with only 4-5 racers. They are now a thriving class with nearly a full 16 car field. I'd like to suggest we copy one of the things that I believe make their class a success.

Here is what I propose:
Sportsman .500 tree
3 qualifying runs
The best qualifying run is your dial-in.

A couple of additional things should be included:
A minimum Qualifying ET based on a true stock car
No delay boxes allowed

My Reasoning:
Allow slower cars a fighting chance.
Prevent sandbagging and "holding a couple of tenths"
Keep costs of running a racecar under control
Welcome the "Collector" and "Show car" owner into a class where everyone feels they have a chance

The winner will ultimately be the guy or gal who knows how to drive their car and consistently cut a light.

Dave

 

[SS/GN]

When I was in BG I was very intrigued by this class. It is just so cool to be stock looking. The only part that is not available to everyone is the down pipe. The only "good one" is the ATR and it has not been made in forever. I think the Kirbans stock appearing would be a good idea so everyone would have access to the same parts. My only concern is that these cars are faster than 11.50 and by NHRA would need a bar and there is no way I am cutting my cars up a year down the road when some tech guy says we can't run.

 

[Phoneguy]

There is no tech check in BG

 

[Kip]

Dave, I think it is great that you have taken an interest in TSA but the changes you have proposed are not with the intent of why the class was started (to see how fast a stock appearing TR can go). Your proposal basically starts a whole new class in my opinion.

 

[87-WE2]

If there's enough interest, why not another class? I don't know how many you need, but I would think some of the collector guys would enjoy doing this. When my plan was to stay stock, I saw what some of the TSA guys were doing and instantly gave up hope. Fact is it takes time and/or money to go fast as stock appearing. Some of the owners in our community are enthusiasts who may not have a lot of either to play with. Call it "true stock" or something. Stock turbo, ic, heads, etc. I like it. Not sure if you'd allow e85, but it's stock appearing. I'd seriously consider running since I'm all stock except for pumps, e85, Maf pipe, and aftermarket exhaust. Maybe a couple of other minor things like rjc bc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[turbodave231]

Kip,

I understand and appreciate the original intent of the TSA class. How much further do you see a stock appearing car going?

With only 4-5 cars competing is this a class that will survive?

We had 4 cars this year and unfortunately, Dale broke. We need more participation to keep this class alive.

 

[Kip]

Kip,

I understand and appreciate the original intent of the TSA class. How much further do you see a stock appearing car going?

With only 4-5 cars competing is this a class that will survive?

We had 4 cars this year and unfortunately, Dale broke. We need more participation to keep this class alive.

I think a mid ten is possible with a purpose built car.
How long it can survive has a lot to do with the racers, heck the Nats still runs TSE with less cars.
I agree more participants would make it better but not at the cost of completely changing the class.
I see you are after the car show guys and want a class they can compete in but have to ask if those guys really want to race why are they not already racing in one of the bracket classes?

 

[turbodave231]

Kip, I see your point. I like the class the way it exists today. Yes, I'm not interested in starting a new class. But, we need to explore ways to get more people involved.

There are stock or nearly stock car running in the brackets. I think it might be advantageous to get them back to "stock appearing" and participate. If we could just double our numbers to 8 cars, then we have a decent ladder to race.

 

[wantattype2]

Kip, I see your point. I like the class the way it exists today. Yes, I'm not interested in starting a new class. But, we need to explore ways to get more people involved.

There are stock or nearly stock car running in the brackets. I think it might be advantageous to get them back to "stock appearing" and participate. If we could just double our numbers to 8 cars, then we have a decent ladder to race.

Dave,
Are the intensions to keep the rules as they are now or make some changes to allow the nearly stock cars to participate ?
I would like to see this thread open to comments from anyone that would be willing to participate if the tree was changed to a Sportsman .500 tree.

Dale,

 

[Missy]

Just want to put my two cents in. Having been involved in TSA in one form or another for the past seven years, I have to ask what has been the most intriguing part of the class? For myself the answer would be to see how fast a stock appearing car can run and still look like it just rolled off the assembly line. I stood on the sidelines the day the 10's were ran by three different cars and believe me it was absolutely astounding! My goal this year was to beat Bill's time or at least get into the 10.90's. If not for torque converter issues I believe I could have been there, so I do not think we have seen the full potential of these cars yet.

There is no doubt we need more car and driver participation. This has been an ongoing struggle with TSA all along. I would love to see more cars in TSA also but not at the expense of losing the original idea of the stock appearing class. I understand the intent is not to start a new class but essentially that is what would be the end result. We may gain some new racers but possibly lose some in the process.

Although I have many test and tune passes under my belt, this was my first time actually racing heads up. With that being said, I can't speak much about bracket racing due to never running in this type of class. I do understand the concept, but I have to say the ultimate thrill is getting to the finish line first. If I am racing against myself, am I really truly racing?

Missy

 

[Kip]

Dave,

I would like to see this thread open to comments from anyone that would be willing to participate if the tree was changed to a Sportsman .500 tree.

Dale,

Are you thinking that a change to a sportsman tree will help with car count?

 

[wantattype2]

Are you thinking that a change to a sportsman tree will help with car count?

I think that Dave has a valid point, A sportsman tree puts everyone on the same level during eliminations without having to change the class. This would also eliminate most of the reasons people are using for not participating . I believe that once people are participating their desire to go faster will kick in. Then reward the fastest qualifier to keep the faster cars pushing the ET down.
Just my opinion Dale,

 

[Kip]

I think that Dave has a valid point, A sportsman tree puts everyone on the same level during eliminations without having to change the class. This would also eliminate most of the reasons people are using for not participating . I believe that once people are participating their desire to go faster will kick in. Then reward the fastest qualifier to keep the faster cars pushing the ET down.
Just my opinion Dale,

So you are not just saying go to a sportsman tree but rather change it to bracket racing with a sportsman tree?

 

[wantattype2]

So you are not just saying go to a sportsman tree but rather change it to bracket racing with a sportsman tree?

Yes, just as Dave stated you fastest qualifying pass would be your dial in .

 

[turbodave231]

I do think that bracket racing with a Sportsman tree would help with car count!! ........that's why I suggested it.

I really do like the TSA rules and I would be 100% OK with leaving all of them alone for 2016, except we NEED more cars in the class!
It would be nice to have a solid 8 car ladder. Can we find 4 more guys/gals to build and race TSA cars in a heads-up race? I don't see that happening. In a Bracket/Sportsman tree race, we might get as many as 10-12 cars.

 

[jeff huffman]

Just bought a GN, haven't got it running yet. But I would love to have a stock class to race in but I'm not going to screw up my pure stock car. I do race and have a race car. But the GN is staying original. Make a stock class and limit it to maybe a chip change only and foot brake.

 

[Thumper]

Quote (Call it "true stock" or something. Stock turbo, ic, heads, etc.)

This would be difficult to tech, not easy and time consuming, to verify stock turbo and heads, both would require parts removal to verify and that will kill tech and time. Not feasible in any race class, some things you just have to allow IMHO.

 

[Thumper]

Kevin, it was nice to meet you, wish I had more time to talk. Feel free to pm me also.

Quote (The only part that is not available to everyone is the down pipe. The only "good one" is the ATR and it has not been made in forever. I think the Kirbans stock appearing would be a good idea.)

Kevin, two of the TSA cars that have modified stock downpipes ran in the tens, Red and Steve both do not have the atr downpipe. The biggest advantage IMHO is is stainless and looks nice, even the concours judges never noticed them on 3 different cars when showing, unfortunately the Kirbans is not that stock appearing. Next year Missy may be on stock unmodified downpipe just to see what performance loss/gains it may have.

 

[Thumper]

I really do like the TSA rules and I would be 100% OK with leaving all of them alone for 2016, except we NEED more cars in the class!
It would be nice to have a solid 8 car ladder. Can we find 4 more guys/gals to build and race TSA cars in a heads-up race?

Dave, I propose leaving TSA a heads up class for 2016. Changing to sportsman tree/ bracket is a large change and needs some more time to evaluate.