Which brake system is better?

[TURBO2]

Kirban sells both a Hydratech and a CPB Hydroboost brake system. Any body have either of these or know which is better?

 

[Gene Van Horn]

I know alot of people chnge out their brake systems to either of those two but personally i believe that a well maintenanced original powerbooster is still the best system for our cars,of course just my opinion.

 

[turbocamino1]

I know alot of people chnge out their brake systems to either of those two but personally i believe that a well maintained original powerbooster is still the best system for our cars,of course just my opinion.

Absolutely entitled to you "opinion"...the over-riding factor thought,is that they...have failed and will fail without warning...serviced regularly...new pressure ball..new pressure switch..new fluid..it wont matter....and as we get to an investment point with these cars reaching into tens of thousands....why would anyone want to risk it? imho.

 

[TURBO2]

I ordered my 86 new and it's brakes have always been push and pray. There is no such thing as locking up the brakes. I have had the whole system replaced by GM, had the master cylinder replaced again by GM, too many accumulators and pressure switches to count. I also made the mistake of buying one of the "New Powermaster Motor/Pump" replacements from Hank Terry with the wonderful warranty that it will be replaced for "FREE" if you have receipts for a new accumulator and pressure switch and the motor burned up to a crisp in two days and big surprise..........no such thing as a warranty. I finally gave up and put the old (presumed dying ) motor back on and worked with non-GM vendors set up a new larger rechargeable accumulator and a heavy duty pressure switch. That set up lasted me almost 10 years with no problems, but still limited braking. Time to swap over to something that actually will stop when I need it to. How GM ever let a car out the door that you could put the pedal to the floor and barely stop is beyond me. Any other car or truck I've owned (pre-ABS) would be skidding down to a stop if I did that.

 

[dwall]

I'm almost no help on this. I pretty much just like driving these cars - just about no racing, so you get the idea. The 1/4 mile club may have more interest in one or another system. I also know of guys (under 10 sec.) that swore by the original PM in those race cars. All hearsay I know. So my experience is:

Power Master (with biennial flush - every two years):
We drove my wife's D84 car all over the US & out to a Kirban Reunion with the original PM (with a replaced brake switch + accumulator ball). Sold the car with no brake problems and 70K miles. 35K great miles!
Put about 15K miles on an absolute stock (with only the brake recall done) white 'T' over 13 or 14 years. I replaced the accumulator with a used KNOWN GOOD (here on the board) accumulator @ 40K miles. Put 1000 miles on with an occasional warning light and decided to replace again right before I sold the car @ 41K miles. The second replacement was a used & tested version of the newer ball bought from Kirban and yes, "Thank you Dennis for being a reliable vendor of great integrity."

Vacuum (with biennial vac line replacements & flush):
Vacuum set up on a 110K mile light blue daily driver. This set up grabbed great was always there. Immediately at start up etc. A great trusted summer daily driver up until it sold a couple years ago. Lots of good miles.

Hydro-boost:
On my current car. Brakes makes noise - power steering pump? It always stops good but I have yet to put any real road trips on this car. Never really pushed the car hard either. Still breaking it in so to speak.... Ha ha... So I guess the jury is still out.

OVERALL:
All my Turbo Regals were NICE fair weather cruisers, stored indoors & with good maintenance. Any brake system bears watching & regular updates. For me if there was a next time and if once again I just want to cruise - you know just drive the damn car, I would do another vacuum set up. I'd put in all new or rebuilt parts and do it Earl's way.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I have been running a powermaster since the car was new,the parts tally, replaced 1 switch and 1 accumulated bulb in all that time.i run synthetic fluid and have seen no issues.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I ordered my 86 new and it's brakes have always been push and pray. There is no such thing as locking up the brakes. I have had the whole system replaced by GM, had the master cylinder replaced again by GM, too many accumulators and pressure switches to count. I also made the mistake of buying one of the "New Powermaster Motor/Pump" replacements from Hank Terry with the wonderful warranty that it will be replaced for "FREE" if you have receipts for a new accumulator and pressure switch and the motor burned up to a crisp in two days and big surprise..........no such thing as a warranty. I finally gave up and put the old (presumed dying ) motor back on and worked with non-GM vendors set up a new larger rechargeable accumulator and a heavy duty pressure switch. That set up lasted me almost 10 years with no problems, but still limited braking. Time to swap over to something that actuallyb will stop when I need it to. How GM ever let a car out the door that you could put the pedal to the floor and barely stop is beyond me. Any other car or truck I've owned (pre-ABS) would be skidding down to a stop if I did that.

So you stop spinning your wheels,replace the lines with steel braided and run synthetic fluid and put disk brakes in the back.your gn will never stop better.

 

[TURBO2]

So you stop spinning your wheels,replace the lines with steel braided and run synthetic fluid and put disk brakes in the back.your gn will never stop better.

But then I've got more money into a crap system that never worked right since new and still not enough braking power to stop safely.
For the same money I can put in a Hydroboost system and have brakes that actually work and never lose another dime to the powermonster. No matter what anyone does the powermaster will fail again and again. The accumulators were designed to be a long term money maker for GM, always failing and sealed instead of rechargeable so you have to buy a new one from them (GM Part only). An industrial pressure switch could have lasted the life of these cars, but that wouldn't have insured GM a steady income from parts either.
Between all the parts I've bought for it, crossing my fingers every time I drive it that a brake light won't come on (or just lose the brakes and then have the light come on) and finally having to redesign the system myself to finally get it to run problem free (alas still with no real braking power) I am totally done with this joke of a brake system.

 

[Mr.Spool]

But then I've got more money into a crap system that never worked right since new and still not enough braking power to stop safely.
For the same money I can put in a Hydroboost system and have brakes that actually work and never lose another dime to the powermonster. No matter what anyone does the powermaster will fail again and again. The accumulators were designed to be a long term money maker for GM, always failing and sealed instead of rechargeable so you have to buy a new one from them (GM Part only). An industrial pressure switch could have lasted the life of these cars, but that wouldn't have insured GM a steady income from parts either.
Between all the parts I've bought for it, crossing my fingers every time I drive it that a brake light won't come on (or just lose the brakes and then have the light come on) and finally having to redesign the system myself to finally get it to run problem free (alas still with no real braking power) I am totally done with this joke of a brake system.

Easy with the powermaster drama.i drive the hell out mine a lot faster than most will ever go and I still run a powermaster.its not a crap system just needs to be maintained and if you want corvette braking your still going to need the things I've mentioned.i did things in stages and know what helped a little and a lot and I can tell you the lines/syn fluid are a big deal,the expansion of the fluid in the rubber lines as it heats up kills the brakes.ive seen a lot of these cars but in the end it's your call as its your car put in what you feel you like.

 

[TURBO2]

Easy with the powermaster drama.i drive the hell out mine a lot faster than most will ever go and I still run a powermaster.its not a crap system just needs to be maintained and if you want corvette braking your still going to need the things I've mentioned.i did things in stages and know what helped a little and a lot and I can tell you the lines/syn fluid are a big deal,the expansion of the fluid in the rubber lines as it heats up kills the brakes.ive seen a lot of these cars but in the end it's your call as its your car put in what you feel you like.

For me it just ends up being a "have to do" at this point. Anytime you can get into a car (pre-ABS), bring it up to speed and slam on the brakes and nothing happens but a very long drawn out slowing of the vehicle then the brakes are worthless.If the brake pedal is to the floor, you should be skidding down the road to a stop. I've spent more time in this car paying attention to if the powermaster was charging up properly and if it was coming on after hitting the brake pedal or not, that it wasn't any fun to drive anymore just waiting for the red light to come on again.
As far as "maintaining". the system, that is all I have done since the car was new. New powermaster, new master cylinder, flush the system, new accumulators, new pressure switches, new motors, just a endless cycle and still no change in the braking..I could invest as you say in new lines, fluid, and rotors and still it won't stop as well as even a stock 1986 Monte SS. It's just more money gone for very little results.

 

[Pronto]

With that list, the only thing left is the lines! No good reason the car shouldn't stop well if all those components have been replaces.

 

[TURBO2]

With that list, the only thing left is the lines! No good reason the car shouldn't stop well if all those components have been replaces.

Every part of this braking system has been replaced at least twice since new. Most of the parts have been replaced too many times to count and it has never made any difference in the way the car stops. The biggest change in braking power was when (as previously stated) I worked with a few companies and came up with a larger rechargeable accumulator and heavy duty pressure switch to work with the powermaster. But even that would never lock up the brakes, it just slowed the car down a bit faster. and stopped the endless swapping out of accumulators, motors, and pressure switches.

 

[Pronto]

Well, you have the mother of all messed up braking systems. I can easily lock up my brakes with the powermaster and hold 10+ psi boost. I have replaced the accumulator and the brake switch was leaking so it was replaced. Have no idea why you have so much trouble with your system. Does the engine run as crappy as the brakes are?

 

[TURBO2]

Every thing else on the car is great. It's only the powermaster that has been an epic failure since new. The first day I picked up the car someone cut me off when I was doing about 40 mph, I hit the brakes and almost hit him. After that I took it for a ride on a local empty road sped up to 50 and slammed on the brakes and couldn't believe how bad the brakes were, just ever so slowly down to a stop. As I mentioned before any other car I had before this would have been skidding down the road. That's when all the parts replacement started. GM replaced the whole powermaster which resulted in cutting stopping times not quite in half (still wouldn't come close to locking up). After about a year a non-GM mechanic said that the master cylinder was bad and I relayed this to my dealer who didn't want to do anything so I had GM come to the dealership and they also didn't want to do anything with the car being out of warranty until I said "So if a kid runs in front of me and I can't stop, you're ok with that" then they decided they would replace everything again. After that I was on my own for endless parts and horrible braking. I can't count the amount of times I have almost hit cars because the car will not slow down fast enough. I once sped up to 75 mph on an empty stretch of highway, slammed on the brakes and it took so long to slow down I could have stopped faster using the e-brake only.

 

[Gene Van Horn]

Turbo2, that is by far the worst brake system I've heard about with the powermaster. Hell mine worked better than that when the fuse blew and had no power in powermaster. Mine are like Pronto's, still work fine and hold plenty of boost although i do have disc upgrade on the rears and drilled and slotted on the front but i don't really think that matters all that much. Maybe just been lucky i guess.

 

[TURBO2]

I don't understand how other people can have good brakes with this system when I've been through 2 full system changes including master cylinder and all the other new parts to end up with almost no braking.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

By the numbers:

We sell an equal number of pm units versus vacuum set ups. Our pm units lifetime warranty long as you own the car and I am vertical to the ground its covered as I got a iron deal with Cardone.

Hydroboost the cheaper one is far more popular also quicker to get....expensive one takes 6 to 8 weeks.

both work on the same principle....time consuming to install

few tips which you may or may not have done stainless hoses to font calipers brass proportioning valve.

I am not here to sway you either way we sell 4 different ways to stop the car.....your choice.

I understand your frustration GM did a few mis steps in the brake department... for example never letting owners know to change the fluid every year or so and using proportioning valve that creates rust issues..

denniskirban@yahoo.com

 

[Mr.Spool]

Every part of this braking system has been replaced at least twice since new. Most of the parts have been replaced too many times to count and it has never made any difference in the way the car stops. The biggest change in braking power was when (as previously stated) I worked with a few companies and came up with a larger rechargeable accumulator and heavy duty pressure switch to work with the powermaster. But even that would never lock up the brakes, it just slowed the car down a bit faster. and stopped the endless swapping out of accumulators, motors, and pressure switches.

That's why you didn't see the improvements because they weren't the problem in the first place.

 

[TURBO2]

That's why you didn't see the improvements because they weren't the problem in the first place.

Then what is the problem?

 

[Mr.Spool]

Then what is the problem?

I made suggestions in my posts