200 4r slight bind on 3-4 shift

Mike T · Jul 14, 2017

What would be some of the typical reasons for a very slight bind on the 3-4 shift? It also has almost immediate 1-2-3 but we're pretty sure that a TV hanging up.

It's a new rebuild by a well know builder. It has sat for 5+ years and as I understand it some of the assembly lube used back then could be a problem (harden) if the trans was not installed/run in a reasonable amount of time.

David Husek · Jul 14, 2017

Mike T said:
What would be some of the typical reasons for a very slight bind on the 3-4 shift? It also has almost immediate 1-2-3 but we're pretty sure that a TV hanging up.

It's a new rebuild by a well know builder. It has sat for 5+ years and as I understand it some of the assembly lube used back then could be a problem (harden) if the trans was not installed/run in a reasonable amount of time.

3-4 is a stack shift which mean third is on and then 4th applies on top of that, 3rd does not come off. No way to be a bind when the clutch is just adding itself. If it is not a br valve body and a non performance one, they shift into 4th by 30 mph on average. As soon as the trans gets hot all that lube will be gone. You can experience a slight bind on the 2-3 shift at light to partial throttle. I doubt it is a TV problem. I would have it looked at as to not burn it up.

Mike T · Jul 14, 2017

Strange....binding would be my best description. It's a n/l trans and I did find the throttle valve to be stuck and freed it up manually. Can't say that it didn't stick again though. It will be in 3rd by 15 mph but manually shifted it operates as if nothing is wrong (nice firm non-binding shifts) except for 3-4. I'll have to get the gauges back on it because if I remember correctly the forward pressures were too high.

Mike T · Jul 23, 2017

Ok.....What quirks would you guys expect a trans to have with the pressure numbers listed below. 9.5 17 PTC N/L if that factors at all. BTW it had a stuck TV when first installed and had 0 pressure rise across the board (did not drive until freed up).

No TV 1500 RPM Full TV

P 100 P 240
R 160 R 270
N 95 N 240
D 100 D 230
3 100 3 240
2 310 2 240
1 310 1 270

TexasT · Jul 23, 2017

If it sat five yrs I would bet on gummed up vb. I drove my fresh build around a bunch to get it to shift so after sitting five yrs it might need to have the pan dropped to clean out the vb.

77 cruiser · Jul 23, 2017

Are you feeling a slide & bump type of shift maybe? Those pressures look good to me.

David Husek · Jul 23, 2017

Pressure should be checked at idle, min TV and max TV. Your pressures are dropping off at full TV. I wouldn't drive aggressive with that low of pressure until you get it figured out. You will hurt the trans with any power. How is the pressure rise at say 1/4 & 1/2 TV.

Mike T · Jul 24, 2017

Not fully understanding how everything works I'm a little confused. The only drop I see is 1 and 2 and they are solid when driving the car (seem fully engaged)? Not thrilled with 2-3 shift and 3-4 is soft and a strange minor hang up or a stepped shift for a lack of a better description (wouldn't call it a flare) . About 1 time out of 20 it's a little slow in reverse.

Manual shifting gives very firm 1-2 shifts and mediocre 2-3-4 shifts. In auto the shifts are still stacked and I wouldn't feel comfortable putting power to it yet. I set the TV up like the instructions for this trans called for. With the pan off a specific length at no throttle pressure was set and the full throttle was set to bottom out the linkage on the VB.

Was thinking that maybe the governor could be gummed up too causing the stacked shifts?? Was even thinking the converter may be cushioning the shifts? I'll get more pressure readings.

David Husek · Jul 24, 2017

Your pressures are low and second should be at 270 like first and reverse. Your losing 10 psi from drive to OD at full TV. They should be 250+ min. What valve body do you have? A lot of non performance VB will shift real fast from first to third to OD.

Mike T · Jul 24, 2017

Must be sticky valves because the pressures are all over the place. little things will cause large pressure swings.

Additional pressure readings

Idle no throttle pressure

P 100
R 155
N 100
D 100
2 290 went down to 155 at operating temp???
1 260 went down to 135 at operating temp???

Idle 1/4 Idle 1/2 Idle full

P 130-160-210
R 185-185-180
N 120-175-210
D 120-180-170
3 120-165-155
2 155-160-155
1 135-145-135

Light power brake @ 1500 and @ 2000

2 250-305
1 235-290

Moderate power brake will take 1 and 2 to 350 easily and you can tell a pressure valve is releasing by watching the gauge. They will spike to 370 with a quick blip of the throttle.

Mike T · Jul 24, 2017

Probably worth mentioning again.... manually shifting after 3k produces very firm and positive 1-2-3 shifts but OD just feel like a stock trans.

Auto shifts are 1-2 @ 15 MPH 2-3 @ 25 and I would say OD is around 35-40

Gary Durden · Jul 25, 2017

David Husek ask "What valve body do you have"?

Mike T · Jul 25, 2017

Gary Durden said:
David Husek ask "What valve body do you have"?

I honesty don't know. Had the valve body off 4 years ago to free up TV and assumed it was a BRF. At the time I didn't realise a performance build may not always utilize a BR VB. Was working on trans 4 years ago when engine started giving problems now that's taken care of back to the trans. I have both stock and modified BR VB's around but reluctant to install because I don't know if they will be compatible with the upgrades of this trans.

David Husek · Jul 25, 2017

Mike T said:
Moderate power brake will take 1 and 2 to 350 easily and you can tell a pressure valve is releasing by watching the gauge. They will spike to 370 with a quick blip of the throttle.

The pressure should not go over 300 and pressure rise and fall should be smooth, not bouncing. I would try another gauge as your readings are very low and worse when warm. If still an issue, pull trans and go thru it to repair. At the min, pull valve body and pump pressure setup.

Mike T · Jul 26, 2017

Going to start with VB and pump valves. It only has 200 miles on it so the amount of material in the pan will help decide if it's going to be a full tear down. Doesn't rule out seals though.

It's so close to being right.....down shifts are perfect with zero clunk. Starting to think the accumulator circuit is not seeing the TV pressure rise. 1-2-3 is @ 15 and 25 every time no matter what the throttle position is. Even adjusted the TV cable to where the TB was at half open at full TP and drove it very easy to see if the shifts would change at all. The 1-2 did not change at all, 3 was delayed by maybe 5 MPH but it did hold OD off for quite a bit longer.

Mike T · Jul 26, 2017

Mike T · Jul 26, 2017

Pan had a thimble full of very fine Grey metallic sludge. Not a BR VB any thoughts as to what it is? Look close a plug in pump body. I have another upgraded trans next to it and the plug is solid.

David Husek · Jul 26, 2017

Post better pics of valve body with a little distance and clarity from all angles. Your pump is set for lock-up, but you state you have a 9.5 PTC NLU. The pressure switches are not there, lock-up solenoid and harness is not there. Comparing your ACC valve with different versions I have here, it could be stuck open which can cause a lot of pressure issues, but I need better clear pics to be sure. Contact me when you drop the valve body