2010 TSA rule clarification and ?s

[Thumper]

I have recently spoken with RC and I would like to open a discussion which hopefully will improve tech. The primary reason is to get clarification on rules that were set forth by RC and making tech go much smoother.

(Please, can a moderator post the tsa rules under this thread for easy reference)

Interpetations of rules will vary between participants and onlookers, but what counts is Richard Clark's say so and ruling. It is after all his class to do as he wishes.

My personal belief is being prepared and having knowledge of the rules does make everything a whole lot easier for everyone. In my experience, having knowledege of the car show and race rules was a handful, but it is manageable.

The Buick community is known for "Going Fast with Class" so please lets show some respect and good sportsmanship.


Thanks
Bill

 

[Thumper]

Richard,

I have now started using a wideband o2 sensor for tuning, which requires a bung welded into the cat converter. I can remove the o2 sensor and plug the hole but will this work with the rule of (must pass the 50 state visual inpection) or will I need to swap out cats after tuning?

As you know, my car has the 145mph overlay speedometer, is this still ok with the rules, the rest of the instument cluster is original.

Also, a friend of mine who is interested in competing this year, but has a sunroof that is not factory, what would be your opinion on this?

Thanks
Bill

 

[turbo39151]

It would be nice to have some "brightline" rules set forth on this. I perused last years TSA conversations and it looked like everyone was complaining- I think it was a result of confusion as to what was allowed or not allowed.

41 views and still no responses???

 

[DCVING 6]

I would LOVE to run this class, but have been nervous to commit to setting the car up for it because of the rules/tech. I'd hate to get the car all the way down to BG and not be able to race because I have the wrong hose clamp, etc.

 

[Thumper]

If I read the rules correctly, (hoses must be black and clamps must be original color) what would really be the problem, a couple dollar can of satin black and a hour of time??? The tridon hoses clamps that are original equipement are all over and readily available just need a coat of black paint. Or better yet powder coated. I am sure you can still find the wire type clamps for the rad hoses is salvage yard if you are showing also.

If you want a original replacement set for the airbox and flex tube, a few vendors do sell them, the only diff is that the originals say made in canada, the replacements say made in USA. These will pass in concours also.

Please someone step in here and correct me if I am wrong, but this is just 1 way to be compliant with the rules.

It really is not that difficult IMHO, but being prepared really will make it easier. If I remember correctly 1 car had a blue hose and RC was being lenient, and 1 car did have a silver non wire style hose clamp. I did not see a perfect car there, but the better prepared the easier it will be for everyone.

Thanks
Bill

 

[turbo39151]

I was thinking that the big issues were the small stuff...

Rules said no braces... I thought I read that rear set braces would be ok

Rules said stock heads and headbolts but there was mention that the judges would not be taking stuff off the car (or taking apart??)

I was told by someone at GS that for purposes of concours there was a 35 page book that the judges would use. I have not seen this book and frankly am still unsure about what a judge is looking for.

Then there's the tech...

 

[Thumper]

"I was thinking that the big issues were the small stuff..."

Details I guess, they do make a difference.

"Rules said no braces... I thought I read that rear set braces would be ok"

I read the TSA rules and interpret them the same way, "rear seat braces are ok as long as they are installed and visable only from the trunk", BUT I am sure you will be dinged for that during CONCOURS judging.

"Rules said stock heads and headbolts but there was mention that the judges would not be taking stuff off the car (or taking apart??)"

The CONCOURS judges may not notice??? But they can be seen without any tool (maybe a flash light used) just by looking carefully by anybody during TSA tech and the stamped letters can even be read, only in certain locations though.

"I was told by someone at GS that for purposes of concours there was a 35 page book that the judges would use. I have not seen this book and frankly am still unsure about what a judge is looking for."

This "book" guide is on Kirbans website for everyone to see or read, its all there. I have emailed the head judge, awaiting reply, and hopefully can share any info in future posts.


"Then there's the tech...[/QUOTE]"

Just be prepared, follow rules, then problems should not arise.

RC even said in one reply LAST year " with what is at stake this year....ie over 6 grand first place, you can be certain that the peer tecking procedure at BG in not going to leave many stones unturned" how true it really was.

I do want to say, I am only voicing MY opinion and interpretations, as a participant.

Thanks
Bill

 

[turbo39151]

I looked on Kirban's site for the rules but found nothing. Can you provide guidance?

Can you give any examples of the tech detail issues? Besides the methanol issue and antifreeze (they were kidding, right?) I wan't there to see this but I've read all of the back and forth...

Just trying to get an idea about what all of this is about. Don't want to waste time with it if none of my cars will qualify.

 

[Thumper]

I do not know what the antifreeze issue is about, I had water and water wetter in mine and nobody mentioned mine was clear?????

Try this for the concours rules. GSCA (Concourse) Judging Rules I used it today to verify it still is valid, dated 1999 but still unchanged and current.



Thanks
Bill

 

[turbo39151]

I saw those before. Thanks for the link though.

Looking for something even more definitive.

 

[Slow91z]

Ok I don't understand...Are you looking for rules for the race class or the concourse show class.

 

[Thumper]

As far as CONCOURS rules, a head judge refered me to the BCA judging handbook, 85 pages but alot of info on older cars. The 99 rules posted up earlier are what I used for my car, and payed off well.

Thanks
Bill

 

[A2000RICH]

guys---------finally i am about to get the time necessary to respond to the questions being asked-------this year the stakes are high and the competition will surely be intense--------unlike last year the inspection is going to be a no BS by the book procedure-----i have enlisted the services of a ex AIR FORCE colonel who is a car collector and owns a GN -----he knows what a stock car looks like and knows how to read a vin tag-------he will be a pit bull so my advice is don't push it------it will result in disqualification and i don't want to see that happen to anyone-------please understand that this forum is NOT the place to ask about concours rules------i have nothing to do with that------you enter concours and if you score accordingly your score from them will be accepted by me-------as for the race tech i always felt that the rules were not too difficult but apparently they are------my bad------but before we start hashing over issues i want to quote a few lines from the rules that i think can clarify many questions right from the start-----------1-"full stock interior matching option codes on trunk"--------2-"no deletions or additions that are not supported by build tag"------and 3-"must have option sticker on trunk lid with vin that matches car----------somehow i just have to believe those simple statements cover a lot of ground and aren't too ambiguous --------the vin tag with option list is key to a lot of things--------car must match what the option tag says--------only exceptions i see are clearly spelled out-----such as posi/alum bumper supports/gnx option--------if the rules don't say you can do it you CAN'T do it unless its invisible.................RC

 

[Thumper]

Richard,

If I understand what you are really saying, now please correct me if I am wrong,

(1) a o2 bung in a cat converter that is seen in not allowed
(2) a transmission drain plug in the pan that is seen is not allowed
(3) an overlay 145mph on the speedo cluster is not allowed

as none of these above items came with a rpo code, is this right????

I know that some may see these questions as disconcerning or irrelevant, but I have also seen these items clutter up tech. I would just like to get these out in the open to ease tech for the upcoming events.

Thanks
Bill

 

[TurboTnZ06]

My 10 sec T is down and won't make it to the nationals. My GN is near stock, however, are there penalties for each wrong part or is it straight up disqualification? Such as a gbodyparts welded aluminum stock replacement radiator with factory oil cooler attachments would add .1 sec to whatever ET I run?

 

[A2000RICH]

My 10 sec T is down and won't make it to the nationals. My GN is near stock, however, are there penalties for each wrong part or is it straight up disqualification? Such as a gbodyparts welded aluminum stock replacement radiator with factory oil cooler attachments would add .1 sec to whatever ET I run?

its got to meet the rules to run

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Thanks!