2014 TSO Rules Discussion

[HighPSI]

It's that time of year again. Here's your chance to discuss any rules changes you might want. Any past, present, or future TSO racer can join in the discussion. Like always, only the last 2 years particpants have a vote. I will have to look through all the old ladders and see who those are. Because we had so few races this year, I suspect the list will be much smaller.
Just like last year, I am open to somebody else taking the reins and running the class if that's what you guys want.

I saw in another post, Don has proposed adding a 100# weight penalty for those running E85. For those that don't know, Gary Harmon, Paul Dubois, George Thompson, and Manny Espino all run E85 in the TSO class

 

[gnxtc2]

Bring up to vote on the dry sumps.
Bring up to vote on E85 penalty.


Cal you're not going anywhere.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[street-t]

I don't see why we would need to discuss e85 again? E85 has not shown to be any kind of advantage. Per the results of the guys running it. Except the price of course. Now because I'm saving money on my fuel I need 100lbs added? I don't understand? Maybe Don and anyone else that thinks e85 has been an advantage can point it out to me cause I don't see it?

 

[baadgn]

I don't see why we would need to discuss e85 again? E85 has not shown to be any kind of advantage. Per the results of the guys running it. Except the price of course. Now because I'm saving money on my fuel I need 100lbs added? I don't understand? Maybe Don and anyone else that thinks e85 has been an advantage can point it out to me cause I don't see it?

Well the way i see it when you run 7s and claim the there is still more left in the tank other people get nervous as too what is left in the tank !! and start to see it as an advantage.......

 

[street-t]

Well the way i see it when you run 7s and claim the there is still more left in the tank other people get nervous as too what is left in the tank !! and start to see it as an advantage.......

Tell me what an e85 car has done that wasn't done with a 200 lb heavier car more than 3 years ago on q16? I say add weight to the car that is more aerodynamic, runs the fastest mph, has the most money in it, fastest e.t, runs the most expensive fuel ect ..ect.. Lol... Not!!! I say linem up and race and stop the bitchin. Its not like the fastest cars are 5 tenths and 10 mph apart. The top five cars can win any day. Also saying you have more in the tank and actually proving it is two different things.

 

[HighPSI]

It was brought up to me that we need to police the turbo on anyone who sets an ET or MPH record. I suggest we wait until the event is over and pull the inlet pipe and downpipe. Billy, what specifically do you want voted on regarding dry sumps?

 

[HighPSI]

To be eligible to vote, you need to have raced the class at least once in the last two years. If I miss anyone, or have someone on there that shouldn't be, let me know. As near as I can tell, the following racers get a vote:

Richie Balcom
Willard Brown
Jason Cramer
Don Cruz
Paul Dubois
Manny Espino
Dave Fiscus
Art Frye
Tony Gomes
Gary Harmon
Wayne Haydock
Justin Hinderer
Todd Humphrey
Jimmy Morrison
Nick Piccione
Tim Szabo
Brad Tennyson
George Thompson
Billy T
Jason White

 

[Weakest Link]

I believe I saw Cruz go 180 mph. I may be mistaken but no one else has gone that fast. I also believe those who have no radiator up front and the entire front completely blocked off except for the turbo inlet have a Huge advantage over the radiator up front cars. In hot weather the liquid inner cooled car defiantly have the advantage. I think e85 and Q16 seem to be the same. As far as cost is concern the people running E85 are now spending as much on fuel as I am on Q16. The only exception I am aware of is Manny who says he purchases his e85 at a local gas station .

A great suggestion is to add 50 lbs to any one who wins a race. Example: if Fiscus wins BG the next race he attended he must weight 3300 lbs. if he wins this race then add another 50 lbs until he does not win . Then allow him to drop the last 50 lbs added. If he does not win the next race then he drops the initial 50 lbs until he gets to the minimum weight for the class. They do exactly this In the SCCA Pro classes. It really helps to keep things even where one person does not dominate the class. Just my thoughts on keeping things even. I am absolutely sure this suggestion will not get voted in but it is something to think about rather than complain about liquid, e85 , weights and size of turbos.

I have had my say. Now I will have my one vote on any changes in the rules for TSO.

 

[HighPSI]

Thank you Willard. I will add your 50# winner weight penalty to the list of things to be voted on.

 

[street-t]

I believe I saw Cruz go 180 mph. I may be mistaken but no one else has gone that fast. I also believe those who have no radiator up front and the entire front completely blocked off except for the turbo inlet have a Huge advantage over the radiator up front cars. In hot weather the liquid inner cooled car defiantly have the advantage. I think e85 and Q16 seem to be the same. As far as cost is concern the people running E85 are now spending as much on fuel as I am on Q16. The only exception I am aware of is Manny who says he purchases his e85 at a local gas station .

A great suggestion is to add 50 lbs to any one who wins a race. Example: if Fiscus wins BG the next race he attended he must weight 3300 lbs. if he wins this race then add another 50 lbs until he does not win . Then allow him to drop the last 50 lbs added. If he does not win the next race then he drops the initial 50 lbs until he gets to the minimum weight for the class. They do exactly this In the SCCA Pro classes. It really helps to keep things even where one person does not dominate the class. Just my thoughts on keeping things even. I am absolutely sure this suggestion will not get voted in but it is something to think about rather than complain about liquid, e85 , weights and size of turbos.

I have had my say. Now I will have my one vote on any changes in the rules for TSO.

The cars with no radiators turbo in the grill do have an advantage. I would expect those cars to be the fastest? I'm good with the way the rules are now and have no complaints about anything. My fuel has all been Florida turnpike Shell e85. I will continue to use it unless I find it is not adequate.

 

[gnxtc2]

It was brought up to me that we need to police the turbo on anyone who sets an ET or MPH record. I suggest we wait until the event is over and pull the inlet pipe and downpipe. Billy, what specifically do you want voted on regarding dry sumps?

Yes or no on dry sumps

On the turbo issue.... anyone who sets a ET or MPH record, the car should be weighed and check the turbo if it comforms to the rules

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Brad T]

It was brought up to me that we need to police the turbo on anyone who sets an ET or MPH record. I suggest we wait until the event is over and pull the inlet pipe and downpipe. Billy, what specifically do you want voted on regarding dry sumps?

I am getting pretty lazy I think I will give up all of my records . It is just to much work to pull that down pipe off after a long day of kicking butts and breaking records.

 

[HighPSI]

That's funny Brad! Last year we were voting around January 8th. I would like to get all rule change proposals by the end of the year. So far we have the following rule changes to vote on:

1) 100# weight penalty for cars running E85
.
2) To add 50 lbs to any one who wins a race. Example: if Fiscus wins BG the next race he attended he must weight 3300 lbs. if he wins this race then add another 50 lbs until he does not win . Then allow him to drop the last 50 lbs added. If he does not win the next race then he drops the initial 50 lbs until he gets to the minimum weight for the class.

3) Yes or no to allowing dry sumps

4) Anyone who sets a ET or MPH record, the car should be weighed and check the turbo if it comforms to the rules

 

[street-t]

I vote No to 1-3 and yes to 4. Keep the class the way it is. Line up and race.

 

[HighPSI]

That seems to be the general trend I'm hearing. I am holding on for another week to see if any other changes are requested. After that we will do voting in the same format as last year.

 

[baadgn]

That seems to be the general trend I'm hearing. I am holding on for another week to see if any other changes are requested. After that we will do voting in the same format as last year.

Make all weights the same no other class penalizes liquid IC.... remove the rule of 275 tires required on pro mod 88s a 275 has proven to not be a hinderence...... E85 has shown no advantage so leave it alone.... dry sump is fine with me, its under the hood and doesnt take away from the class..... Im all for the 50 lb increase for the winner, gives us slower guys a chance..... any car that sets a record or wins should be reteched/checked.

 

[Chris Hogeland]

Todd H don't get on here much so he told me to put his vote in if that is ok. We run A dry sump on his car and see it as the same as everybody running A belt drive pump just safer if something happens. we are good with everything else.

 

[veesix]

I say leave the rules alone for another year. Gary has spent a lot of time and money to convert his car to TSO trim and we don't find anything wrong with the current rules. Check the winner of TSO for correct weight turbo size and fuel.

 

[gnxtc2]

Remove the 275 tire requirement for the GT-55/Pro-Mod 88 but add a weight penalty just for using that turbo frame/size. There is a weight break for 82mm turbos and smaller, so it makes sense for a weight penalty for the bigger turbos.

3000 for smaller than 88mm
3250 for 88mm (47-88 or what ever it's called now)
3400 for Pro Mod/GT-55 turbo

Example: Pro-Mod turbo, liquid IC and wheelie bars he needs to weigh 3500

Change wording for tire size to also include P tire sizes

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[gnxtc2]

Adding 50lbs to the winner of a race can backfire........if a slower car lines up against a faster car in the finals, the faster car blows the tires off, has mechanical issues, etc and slower car wins......he now has to carry around extra 50lbs???? Or if the faster car has mechanical issues and can't make it to the final race, the slower car wins by default....does the 50lb penalty still apply????

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com