218/218 or 224/224 ?

[slopokin]

ok i've narrowed my cam quest down to these 2. i know the 218 cam be noisy, but do you like the performance for a 10 sec machine or would you bump up to the 224. what are the downsides of this cam. how is it on the street? plz help thanks.

 

[gnx7]

I have one in my new engine (PTE-218R) and with 1.65 T&D's it is over .520" lift. Healthy rumble at idle and pulls hard on top..... I'd say it is fine for a street cam but you will lose a few MPG's if that bothers you.... and yes... it is a little noisy.

This cam has been in the 9's in a full weight GN so I'd say it works pretty well.

224 is pretty damn aggressive for the street. Remember Geno went 9's with a 208/208 cam... but tons of boost.

-GNX7

 

[slopokin]

thanks for the info. where does your car idle? what would it take to get into low 10s with the 218r

 

[azgn]

low 10's?

a cam is the least of your worries....better start with some heads, much bigger turbo, injectors, and the rest of the supporting cast...cams are not a big deal on these cars

 

[slopokin]

i have accel gen6 dfi big valve iron heads lockwired. i'm about to redo fuel system again. what size turbo? what else do i need? i have more parts than knowledge of combinations.

 

[azgn]

I dunno if irons will do it for you......maybe somebody who has been there can tell you?

I always thought a low 10 combo needed ported aluminums (which flow prolly 30% better than iron)

as for a turbo, a 70 would be the minimum.....and your 72's "may" make it but I think 83's would be better

girdle & caps on the block

double pumper will handle 130 or so.........if it was me, I'd change the lines and put a big ass Weldon and fuel cell

most any old cam will do the job (as long as it'll get you to 6500 or so)

 

[slopokin]

where do you shift your motor? ordered girdle already. how far do you think i can push this combo. i dont like fuel cell still a street car first .hah arent they all though.

 

[azgn]

me? I shift at 5600

to go faster, you'll need 6000+

local 10.4 car launches at 5200 and shifts at 6500

my car is full weight also...3700+

 

[slopokin]

is that with the 218r? and which turbo does he have?

 

[azgn]

yeah, 218 roller, 1.65 T&D's, FAST, TH headers & 3.5 DP, ported GN1's, 72 turbo...car weighs about 3-400 less than mine

 

[slopokin]

let me ask you a question about a separate cam . atr214/208 109 lobe sep. 46deg overlap, lift in496 ex484 dur in 268 ex 264? how about this cam with my combo.i think it is the 314r or b cam oh yeah i have td 1.65 rollers too. see i got more stuff than i can remeber for the new motor

 

[azgn]

I'm sure it would work fine.....as I said, cam is no big deal as long as it will handle the rpm you are after and most any roller (206 & up) will do that

 

[slopokin]

hey thanks for the speedy replies. i think the 218 has 270dur . isn't there 2 218s what is the diff between the 2

 

[slopokin]

thanks for the info . i will be calling red and ron .

 

[gnx7]

A local car here used a $159 cast iron flat tappet cam PTE-218R (218* duration/.478" lift) with stock block using billet main caps, JE pistons, champion ported iron heads, 1.65 T&D's, KB headers (same as ATR), TH 3" downpipe (open dump), AC 9" 4000 NLU stall convertor, TE-63 turbo, 55lb/hr injectors, FAST with a/c and p/s, fiberglass hood/bumpers 6pt roll bar and ripped off some 10.40's@128mph with 24-25lbs boost. He would shift at 6200rpm approx and was at the limit of his fuel and turbo essentially. Also with hard launches the car was starting to shear the teeth off of the ring gears in the diff ( happened a few times) so he would mainly run high 10's/low 11's to keep it more reliable and do a softer launch. A 1.40 60ft vs. a 1.70 60ft is probably 1/2 second in the 1/4 mile.... and a mellower launch is much less abusive on the drivetrain.

When you start going faster than high/mid 10's.... reliability becomes a big issue as stated by many. TH200-4R's become pushed to their limits (1x per year refreshing if not major failures)..... main bearings get punished with running so much boost (crank flexes eventually wiping the bearings under high boost), and other items I'm sure are stressed to their failure point. The glory of low 10's is totally eye opening... but make sure your wallet can afford it as well.

-GNX7

 

[slopokin]

oohhh yeah . i'm looking on buying a tow rig for when i blow it i can get it back to the shop ,notice i said when not if. things break going fast or trying to get there. is the 224 proven because once the turbo is turned up ,if it aint fast enough ,IT'S GONE .... i just want enough cam you know.i hate to be that deep in the motor and wish i went bigger.

 

[gnx7]

A small 208 duration cam went 9.90's with a T-70BB turbo and lots of boost.

Unlike an N/A motor these little hairdryer V6's don't need huge cams..... they do like high boost though..... so build your shortblock with either a girdle or steel center caps for when you turn the wick up.

I would go with a hydraulic roller vs. a flat tappet cam if you have the $$$.

-GNX7

 

[GS70350]

As previously mentioned, you dont need a cam that big to run the numbers you want. Why not take a look at a dual pattern cam as well? I now think that a cam with a little longer exhaust duration than intake duration(like the factory cam) is the right way to go. The factory did alot of things "right", and it might be a good idea to look at their experiments and testing to help choose. They did tons of research on the V6 engine for the indy program and stuff.
The 224 would definately be ENOUGH cam, you will never wish you had gone bigger, most likely wish you had gone smaller, because its NOT NECESSARY to have a cam that big.

Id get a 70 series turbocharger to run the times you want. Ive read that some people have done it with a 60 series but it bet its effieciency is pretty low at the boost levels you have to run. Get a 72 or somethin with a 3500 stall converter since you wanna drive on the street still.
Your injectors are gonna do ok, i know that Jason White ran mid 10s on MSD50lbs injectors, 72s should go a few tenths faster at LEAST. Might look at upgrading your fuel pump, lines, rail, regulator. not sure what all you would need for that though.
Dont know how fast a Eastern Perf IC has been, but it should be ok for low 10s.
Aluminum Heads(GN1s) would be better than the Iron ones you have.

Beef up the bottom end as much as possible, and get the power to the ground with a heavily built 200R4 and a tuned suspension, and you should be able to meet your goals. The DFI is a big plus, if you can tune it.
Good Luck

 

[slopokin]

thank you everybody for the info . i will be going with a dual pattern. updates coming soon.