Best abng for the buck?

[Kyle F]

What is the best bang for the buck mod for a TTA. I am not talking about the free ones, but ones you hav to invest in.
I already plan on doing the adjustable wastegate, chip, K&N, Hot wire. All basically free or cheap stuff.
So after that whats the best bang for cheap?

Oh and I already have Turbolink to tune.

 

[mark b]

I didn't see an adjustable fuel pressure regulator on your list. You are going to need that before you expand any further, especially if you ever change injectors.

You'll need to upgrade the fuel pump before you get deep into other mods. TR owners will often do this very early in the game to insure they have fuel in the future, but TTA owners often hold off because it's more difficult (but not impossible) to change the TTA fuel pump.

A number of TTA owners will say say that you can run the car deep into the 12's without any other mods to the engine. If you want to race, slicks or drag radials would be the next investment to get the ET's down. Again, for racing a cut-out pipe or gutted cat converter is going to help. If you don't have emissions testing, a gutted cat will really free up the exhaust flow.

At some point the turbo will be a limiting factor a good upgrade. Turbo technology has progressed since '89 and you can find some good choices while retaining the stock torque converter.

Intercooler upgrades for TTA's are not quite as easy or available as a TR. There's not a lot of room to run a stretched IC and the front-mounts have usually been from CAS and often unavailable.

Didn't see how many miles were on your motor, but simple things like valve springs will yield improvement - they tend to get tired quickly.

The one mod that will generate a big discussion is the downpipe

Either way, plan your upgrades so you have the pre-requisites set and can do them incrementally or in small groups.

 

[1BADDAM]

Get the cat off. Straight pipe or one w/ a dump is great.

 

[Lee_Burough]

mark b, you mentioned that:

The one mod that will generate a big discussion is the downpipe

I note that the stock TTA exhaust is a bit larger than the TR....Is the down pipe larger too? When (what hp and torque) does the 3-3.5 inch downpipe payoff in TTA performance?

I ask because I don't want to be one of those 3.8L turbo owners who bolts on every available "upgrade" and still runs a 12.9 ET

thanks

 

[mark b]

The downpipe has been a subject of major debate, both good natured and sometimes mildly heated on the tta mail list.

Many people claim documented performance both in ET reduction and dyno HP numbers from various downpipes, most typically now the Terry Houston (abbreviated as THDP in case you've seen that!).

Others have legitimately run their TTA's into the 11's with the stock downpipe.

I have not seen a stock TTA downpipe vs. a TR one, but there is speculation that the TTA one is less restrictive. The TR one necks down very badly at the bend, and the ID is well below the 2" of the pipe, so I would believe the TTA one is better in stock form.

In think basically that many feel the THDP dollars are better spent elsewhere until you reach a higher level of performance. When you've got a bigger turbo, ported heads, etc. and need to increase the flow, then it probably is worth it because the restriction is imiting the car at that point.

Simple, but stupid comparison: you'll get more bang by hollowing the cat (for free) than $450 for a THDP. Or even $150-200 for one of those slick new exhaust cutouts with the electrically activated open/close door.

 

[mark b]

I'd actually like to append to my original reply. I think the absolute best bang for the buck after the basic mods is the RJC air distribution plate. LOTS of people have done this and I have only heard 1 person that did not get less knock. Very often more boost with less knock.

 

[Lee_Burough]

mark b,

Thanks for the "rule of thumb" on this TTA downpipe issue....Here is my reasoning using your experience into the 11's w/stock downpipe as a major premise:

3600 pounds going 11.8 ET for quarter mile equates to ABOUT 511 HP at the flywheel....GNTTYPE reports the Ta-49 can support up to 545 HP with injectors, stock converter and still be stock appearing.

My conclusion is: To get my TTA into the 11's, I can
1) keep my stock down pipe
2) Use a Ta-49,
3) 50 pound injectors,
4) Stock converter
5) Lt-1 MAF, Extender and Translator +
6) Power plate
7) Something else that you know about that I don't....

I already have XP fuel pump, 160 Stat, test pipe, AFPR, sticky 10 wide tires. I want a stock appearing engine compartment and a car capable of being disciplined for going too fast without a roll cage at the track

Edited Jun 2003

 

[TTA89]

Originally posted by lburou
mark b,


My conclusion is: To get my TTA into the 11's, I can
1) keep my stock down pipe
2) Use a Ta-49,
3) 50 pound injectors,
4) Stock converter
5) Something else that you know about that I don't....

I already have XP fuel pump, test pipe, AFPR, sticky 10 wide tires. I plan some kind of thumbwheel chip too. Not sure I need a larger MAF to reach my goal of 11.8....

Don't forget fan switches, 160 thermo, valve springs, lockup switch etc etc.

I can't see how that wouldnt run in the 11s if you do it right.

There isnt any 1 big mod, its all the little ones that work together that will take your TTA from 300hp to 450hp.

A Friend of mine went 124mph this weekend on a Stock TTA intercooler and Maf. So do you need a Maf? Umm No!

 

[mark b]

Sounds like you are on the right path.

Definitely don't need the bigger MAF. In fact, before I went to a bigger MAF (meaning the translator and LT1 maf), I'd seriously look into the max-effort chip that runs with no maf.

MSD-50's are another thing you can't really go wrong with. They are very linear, easy to program and there are some great chips out there for them.

Regarding your "stock engine look": the ta-49 is a great, proven turbo that is an excellent replacment for the stocker. I don't think anyone ever went wrong with a ta-49. It can make 11's easier. The stock turbo is just literally blowing hot air when you cross around 20-22 lbs boost .

If you would venture slightly from the pure stock look the te-44 would give you a little more air. You can also look into the PTE stuff.... the PTE-51 is a bit slow on spool (but not terrible) with the stock converter, but some people have complained about the wheels. Another controversial topic.... Seems like every other month someone is coming out with new turbo stuff. Some people like the ball-bearing turbos - run a bigger turbo with the stock converter, but they are expensive.

At that point it becomes seat time, launch, technique .... and some luck...

 

[Grumpy]

TTA downpipe is a piece of crap BUT we still ran 116 mph with it...this is also 1 thing the Buick has better than a TTA

 

[mark b]

So Dan, the TTA stocker is even more restrictive in the bend than the TR? Boy, that sucks! The TR one gets pretty slim....kinda like you now!

 

[Grumpy]

"starvin Marvin"

 

[postal]

NEW VALVE SPRINGS!! they're old and weak if still the originals reguardless of the mileage on the car...THEN......

I say get a Translator plus, and an extender chip for the injectors you want to run. Slapped on hotrod parts dont make these cars run. A matched combination of parts and good tunning make them run hard for the $$'s. Learn how to use your turbo link and tune out your set up as good as you can with it. Get the translator plus and the extender chip. This will allow you to tweak your timming and your fuel. This should allow you to get even more out of it, and its a bone head friendly set up. This will also allow good adjustability to max out all your future mods as you add them so you can get your $$'s worth out of them. After I got that all tuned out real good I would add alcohol injection. Alcohol injection is the best bang for the buck when running pump gas. Any one who says otherwise never ran alcohol or didnt have it set up properly. Then go into turbos, down pipes, and IC's.

HTH: Jason

Bone stock longblock and bolt ons can get a TTA easily into very low 11's or high 10's

 

[TT/Ameasap]

Where you been Jason? Workin on that white beast?

 

[postal]

Well I havent been working on my car until the last few weeks or so. I sat my fat butt in the air conditioning all summer instead of getting my new set up together. Now the hot weather is gone for good, the track closes in a week, and my car isnt quite back together. I have no one to blame but myself though. I can say there were tons of hidden / unforseen problems with my new set up that did really slowed me down. I do think that this new set up is going to run pretty hard though. I'm making a home made cold air induction set up with a air scoop on it, and installing a liquid IC. I think those two things should help my top end mph pick up a good bit.(the stretch IC w/o a shroud was causing me some pretty high inlet temps). Then the Ford 9" rear end with the big ford 11" drum brakes should allow me to build the 15+ pounds of boost I want to launch with, and hopefully the rear suspension mods Ive made to it will hook it up. I figure that if I go from a 1.70 60' to a 1.50 60' and 3 more mph or so out the back door should get it into the 10's. If that doesnt work then ill go for 20 pound launches!

Take it easy: Jason

 

[mrtransam3]

downpipe

I have a TTA and the biggest bang for my buck was the terry houston head with the 3 inch mandrel bent down pipe and removing the convertor. I also help my friend with his 87 GN and BOTH of the stock downpipes are extremely restrictive. The one that came off my TTA was crushed almost in half where it passed the frame rail. That was GM's solution to elimanating exhaust rattles! If you think it's not holding you back, but you fingers over your nose and try breathing through a straw and then you will know how your engine feels. After all an engine is just one big air pump. The more air you get through the more power you make!

 

[Razor]

11.74 last sat here..perty much stock..

I run a PT51,MSD50's,RJC power plate,SMC alky kit,Walbro307,160stat,LT1 springs,free mods,electric cutout,ohh and yeah one of those controversial THDP

..stock IC,MAF,TB,cam,heads,suspension,shocks,...

Well I do have SSM frame connectors and a Hotchkis strut tower brace..

Also stock tranny wont hold up to the low 12's abuse long..with updated clutches and parts..no problem..I did mine and put a 12 inch ProTorque converter.

Cant wait for some cooler weather..11.40's here we come.

And yes its driven to the track

 

[Razor]

Favorite bangs for the buck...

1) Scanmaster
2) SMC Alky kit
3) RJC power plate
4) Fuel Pump
5) Springs

Ya got Turbolink..which records data on a laptop..how do you check for knock when/while its happening?

If you think you can drive one of these cars into the 11's and look at the laptop for knock readings while going down a track with a helmet on....I'll leave it at that..

Scanmaster #1

 

[mark b]

No doubt alky provides a great bang for the buck, especially on the street. But IMHO, it's not for everyone - many people don't want to spend the time to tune it in and buying alky and filling the bottle/tank can get to be an annoyance. You have to "want it". Many people want to bolt on a part and forget it.

If you want to tune with a DFI, I think the max effort is still a better deal than the translator+. It's got a rep as the "poor man's DFI". But.... the translator is a proven and effective product no doubt. I removed my stock MAF for a translator and LT1 just for the sake of saving it because replacements are questionable in quality.

The new propane injection kit from Jay Carter will be interesting - one benefit appears to be the propane will last much longer and might be more economical compared to alky use.

I think the simple solution is to build a still in the backyard when you guy an alky kit

I won't even touch the THDP story. Person A drove into the 11's without one and Person B got 11's with one. Is one necessarily right or wrong? I've had the ATR pipe on my GN for almost 10 years, so....

The nice thing about these motors is you don't HAVE to spend wads of money to go fast.

 

[automorph]

Remember going fast cheap is cool but it might cost ya later.....with an engine rebuild. Remember lots of controllable fuel