Blew both headgaskets but I'm confused, pics inside

[JDSfastGN]

Well yesterday I romped on it down a back road, only through 2nd gear. 17 psi, mostly 110 in the tank, no knock on the scan tool and didn't hear any rattle. While coasting down I saw white smoke pouring out the exhaust. I pulled off and turned the car off. Stupidly I wanted to make sure it was wasn't oil smoke, so I tried to fire it off just for a second, and with the water in the cylinder it kicked back and cracked my starter. I towed it home and 5 out of the 6 cylinders were filled with coolant. So I pulled the motor to make sure I didn't bend any rods when it kicked back like that. Well I got it out and torn apart no probem. But my headgaskets do not look bad at all. There was no oil in the coolant and no coolant in the oil. The rods all look good as well. The gaskets are felpro 9441PTs, ARP bolts that I tightened down at 10# increments, and loosedned a 1/4 of a turn and retightened 3 times over a 2 day period to 85 #s.

http://www.ls1camaro.net/freehosting/headgasket1.jpg
http://www.ls1camaro.net/freehosting/headgasket2.jpg
http://www.ls1camaro.net/freehosting/HG3.jpg
http://www.ls1camaro.net/freehosting/HG4.jpg

I'm guessin the bolts stretched and lifted under boost allowing the coolant to find its way to the cylinders but I just don't see it. Just last weekend I had it 23# of boost with the same gas and had no probs. I figured with 110 in the tank and only 17#s of boost and a street chip I would be just fine I usually run 16-17 on pump gas with no detonation at all. The plugs were all brown but covered in antifreeze.

 

[5ltretr]

I thought the arps bolt torque down was 65#'s only?

I also had to add thread sealer to the bolts before torque"ing"

 

[azgn]

no thread sealer? headbolts go into water jackets.......

 

[5ltretr]

Mine came with some sort of sealant, I cant remember it was over 6 months ago.

hope I got it right though

 

[JDSfastGN]

yes I used thread sealer on them, adn followed all the correct prepping for the heads, they have 12,000 miles on them

 

[1ARUNEM]

Have your heads checked..

 

[JDSfastGN]

yeah im gonna have the block and heads checked by the machine shop

 

[dan lephart]

head gasket

Use the gm gaskets...

 

[JDSfastGN]

The fel pro 9441pts are the exact same as the stockers exept for a little difference in the make up, but both are the same size shape and graphite on the top layer

 

[dan lephart]

headdy subject

I was not aware of that. When did this come to pass? When I was at the GSCA Nationals in Columbus OH a few years ago the GM engineer that directed the design for those "very special" head gaskets said there are no substitutes like the GM original gaskets.

 

[JDSfastGN]

hmm thats just what I've read and heard, the 9441s are the direct replacement for the stockers accoording to most of what I've read, thats why i went with em.

 

[JToups386]

JD, just based on the pics, there are a few spots that look "concerning" on the gaskets. A couple of those pics look to have some scorch marks, but, it's hard to tell via webshots.
As we discussed on the phone, have Klete look at them. If there's a problem, he'll be able to pinpoint it. I'd really like to see them in person though.

Also, I don't want to sound pessimistic, but, I'll be very surprised if you didn't bend a few rods.
Water does not compress, and if you broke the starter when trying to crank it, you most likely would've bent some rods as well. Have Klete check the rods too. This is not just a "band-aid" repair job, and will require a thorough inspection before re-assembling, IMO.

Call me this week, once you've talked to Klete.

Best wishes for minor damage...

 

[slipstick]

Have you checked the ARP head bolts for correct length? The bolts ends cannot bottom out because they go into the water jacket, but if the bolts are too long the thread length may not be long enough to allow the bolt to "make up" on the head before running out of thread length as the bolt is tightened into the block. This has happened to me. The two longest bolts (per head) should be 4.180 inches long. Mine were 4.500 inches and definitely ran out of thread before making up. The other bolts in the set were right and I don't remember their length.

 

[TS6]

Dont you guys think if it was anything related to the damn head bolts, head gaskets, or sealant that it would have shown up much earlier? Like maybe when he was running more boost?! I bet you did something to the intake. Are the TB coolant lines still hooked up? I was once told by a reputable source that these intakes can crack fairly easily.

 

[turbofrank]

Why not just use GM head bolts

 

[JDSfastGN]

well guys after further inspection there is a lot of water and moister in the intake manifold that I didn't notice before. It is a ported stocker and I think it was ported too thin and slowly cracked around a water jacket. Over the past few months, on cold starts in the morning it has been missing until I rev it up. I think there was a small crack that leaked into the cylinders but burned off when I opened it up a little. The car has also been running a little warmer but really no noticable loss of coolant. I think that run was just the straw that broke the camels back. I had to come back to school this morning and did not have time to look at it and find where it cracked but I'm pretty sure this is the problem. BTW my TB coolant lines are blocked so that is not where its leaking. Thanks a lot.

 

[1badTTA]

What are the odds of all 6 cylinders leaking coolant without any noticable signs of it on the headgaskets?????

I would believe the intake leaks long before I would blame the headgaskets since the intake feeds all 6 cylinders. Also, you said it only started smoking after you let off and were out of boost which brings the intake to vacuum and the coolant is at 16psi.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by JDSfastGN
well guys after further inspection there is a lot of water and moister in the intake manifold that I didn't notice before. It is a ported stocker and I think it was ported too thin and slowly cracked around a water jacket. Over the past few months, on cold starts in the morning it has been missing until I rev it up. I think there was a small crack that leaked into the cylinders but burned off when I opened it up a little. The car has also been running a little warmer but really no noticable loss of coolant. I think that run was just the straw that broke the camels back. I had to come back to school this morning and did not have time to look at it and find where it cracked but I'm pretty sure this is the problem. BTW my TB coolant lines are blocked so that is not where its leaking. Thanks a lot.

I think you found your problem all six cylinders "shouldn't" have filled up like from a head gasket problem.

 

[JToups386]

Originally posted by turbofrank
Why not just use GM head bolts

I would say simply --- they're not nearly as good as a set of ARP's, since they are far more prone to stretching/distorting, and can only be used once (safely), as opposed to the ARP.

I've used both over the years, and have found it to be worth the small amount of extra money to put the good ones in it.

But, this is just my own observations. The stock bolts are fine to use if you don't ever plan on taking them out and having to re-use them.

 

[JDSfastGN]

well back to square one, one of my friends back home, went and took the plenum off and had a looksee. Lots of wetness, but no cracks or leaks in the intake. And most are right, the coolant passages are separate and can not leak into the actual intake I hope I didn't crack a head or anything that would be really dissapointing, the heads are fully ported and worked awesome. Maybe the machine shop will have some answers tommorow