cleaning out my engine

[BlackBandit]

So here's the deal. I wiped most of one lobe off my cam. I would like to pull the engine, tear it down, clean it out, and rebuild it, but with a new kid and one income it would take me years to get the money to do that. I was running some options through my head and I came up with this. The engine had good oil pressure when it was shut down and I can't see anything in the oil. With that in mind I was thinking it might be possable to clean the engine out by dropping the pan and cleaning it out and then putting some fuel oil (diesel) in and running the pump with a drill. I would be changing the filter out periodicaly and cutting them apart to monitor how much metal I would be getting. When I couldn't get any more metal I could drop and clean the oil pan again and if there wasn't any metal repeat the process using light motor oil. Then drop the pan one more time and clean it prior to running the engine. I would probably start by washing the engine down with brake clean, top to bottom with the intake off. Other than the fact that this isn't the "right" way to clean out an engine, is there anything glaringly wrong about it? I figure if it doesn't work I would still be down hard for a long time. Opinions would be appreciated.

 

[Dabigguy]

Well, first off, your idea is a good thought. You must address the metal that has already gotten in between the crank and bearings. I think it would be difficult to flush that area out.

The best and cheapest thing you could do would to buy a gasket kit and take the engine apart and reuse the old parts. I can hear the people screaming right now. That way you are just out the cost of a gasket set...and maybe bearings.

Just a thought.

 

[BlackBandit]

I thought about that. But by the time I get the engine out new bearings usually mean new bolts, And little things start to add up. Plus I've never done cam bearings. Would I have to send it to a shop to do the ones in back? That's how I've always done it. Also, at that point it seems like I'd have to polish the crank. Just seems like the money starts to add up quick and then I have more invested in a motor that might go south anyway.(because I still didn't do it right) I like the idea of doing it, but money is a HUGE factor here. Maybe I'm way off. If so PLEASE let me know! Maybe I could pull a couple of caps and see if anything is in the bearings. Like I said, there isn't any visable metal in the oil. I caught it very quickly (maybe 30 miles) so it wasn't run long. Thanks allot for the suggestion. I'll have to look at cost to time down and see if it's feasable. Thanks again. james

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

I'm no expert by any means, but I even suspected a hint of metal, that thing would come apart at least until it was a short block and then clean the piss out of it. You would not believe how much metal a little bearing can leave hidden in an engine. Just my opinion, catching it after 30 miles doesn't mean much, it could take as little as one piston stroke to gouge the cylinder with metal.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

What ever you decide to do, make sure you delete the oil cooler in the radiator. Ive heard plenty of horror stories that the old metal particles will be lodged in the oil cooler in the radiator, then eventually work there way into your new motor.
If your on a budget.
Pull the oil pan in the car, check to see how bad it is.

Since your old cam is flat, what steps are you going to take to make sure it doesnt happen again with a new cam?
Roller?


You might be lucky enough that your oil pump pickup screen filtered out most of the old cam lobe.

If i was in your situation, id pull the pan and see what lays in the pan.

Then i would pull 3 or 4 rod caps, one at a time to check the bearings to see how they look, then a few main caps and check them.

Pull the front cover ( got to do that anyway to install new cam) clean out the oil gallies in the cover, check the gears and faceing of the pump.

So you installed a cam and it went flat in 30 miles????

Ive had friends wipe camlobes in 10-30K, and all we have done is installed another cam with not so much spring pressure and the cars are still running with good oil pressure.

What scares me is how did the cam go flat in 30 miles?

BW

 

[BlackBandit]

Sorry. I should have been more clear. The motor has just over 8k on it. It was running great and then stored for about 6 months. I got it out, changed the oil, primed the pump, all that mumbo jumbo took it for a spin and noticed a strange noise. Couldn't pin it down. Took it out again and it started to run rough, stalled at a light and when I started it and took off I picked up a bunch of knock retard. That's when I shut it down and that whole process was around 30-40 miles. Like I said in my first post I would definately pull that pan, probably a couple times. Checking the pump is a good call. That's easily and cheaply (I have a spare) rebuilt. Also, I have a used ductile roller cam/lifter set here. I figured I'd try installing that. That's the end of flat tappets for me in these motors.

Quick 6, you said to pull some caps. If I do that and the bearings have stuff embedded in them do you think it would be okay just to rebearing it without pulling the engine? I don't think I can bring myself to pull the engine without doing it the right way. And that's a problem because I'm broke.

Thanks for the input and ideas guys.

 

[Ormand]

I'm with Bryan. The particles from the lobe should have gone straight down to the pan, and not gotten into the crank or rod bearings- if you're lucky. Since you have to pull the front cover, might as well pull the pan, and look at a few bearings, just to see what's going on. Put in a new cam, put it back together, and see what happens. If it fails, well, at least you won't have put a bunch of money it.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Gotcha now, 8K and the cam lobe went bad.
Just pull the pan off, and check to see if there is any extra metal in the pan.

If the car had good hot oil pressure, thats a good sign that the rod bearings shouldnt be shot.

It would be a pain in the butt to do the bearings in the car, plus cause of bearing failure in the near future.

If you had alot of metal in the oil that went thru the engine, your turbo would be also failing, do you have a turbo saver?

Wouldnt hurt to check the endplay of the turbo, probably is ok, like i said in my last post, the metal is a bad thing, but ive slapped a new cam in a few and the guys got back on their way without any motor issues.

Id also get a magnetic oil drain plug from NAPA.

BW

 

[JRNYMNDAVID]

Sorry. I should have been more clear. The motor has just over 8k on it. It was running great and then stored for about 6 months. I got it out, changed the oil, primed the pump, all that mumbo jumbo took it for a spin and noticed a strange noise. Couldn't pin it down. Took it out again and it started to run rough, stalled at a light and when I started it and took off I picked up a bunch of knock retard. That's when I shut it down and that whole process was around 30-40 miles. Like I said in my first post I would definately pull that pan, probably a couple times. Checking the pump is a good call. That's easily and cheaply (I have a spare) rebuilt. Also, I have a used ductile roller cam/lifter set here. I figured I'd try installing that. That's the end of flat tappets for me in these motors.

Quick 6, you said to pull some caps. If I do that and the bearings have stuff embedded in them do you think it would be okay just to rebearing it without pulling the engine? I don't think I can bring myself to pull the engine without doing it the right way. And that's a problem because I'm broke.

Thanks for the input and ideas guys.

Under "no!" circumstances should you try to clean out the motor & reassemble it. It needs to be completely dissassembled,cleaned,& hot tanked
before reassembly.Your bearings are probably already trashed.Take the time and your limited funds,and do the right thing,or,you will find yourself tearing it down very soon after you attempt to put it back together without cleaning everything to a nats azz..
I am speaking from experince.I was a dumb azz & paid for it!!!

 

[BlackBandit]

If you had alot of metal in the oil that went thru the engine, your turbo would be also failing, do you have a turbo saver?
BW

I have the oil filter relocation kit from PTE. I believe it's supposed to provide only filtered oil to the turbo but I'm not sure.

Id also get a magnetic oil drain plug from NAPA.
BW

I thought bearing and cam material was non-magnet. If that's not true I should also get magnet for the filter. (I'll get a plug like that regardless)

Also, should I clean out the cover before I try and flush the motor?

JRNYMNDAVID- I appreciate the advise and know that is the correct way to do it. I really do. I'm not new to cars. (not an old dog, but not new ) But doing it the correct way is so far out there it's not even funny. I mean, think about it. YEARS. (I'm sure it COULD happen quicker, but I won't put my car before my family so it wouldn't) I would rather risk the motor and possably get my car back, than make sure it's perfect in a couple of years. If I try to get it working and it doesn't work it's going to cost about the same to rebuild it so its the same thing as just having it sit there. Again, I REALLY appreciate the advice, and would want it again if I was contemplating doing something else stupid and didn't know it. It's just that this time I'm kinda in a corner. james

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Take the oil pan off and take a look inside.

When the cam lobe was flattening, it probably started breaking off in little pieces like fingernail filings. Those pieces will stick to a magnet.

The flash from bearings is non magnetic and wont stick.

I would take the cover off and inspect the oil pump and oiling holes, if it even looks like metal went thru it, replace the cover and the gears. Same part from a regular regal/monte/cutlass/gp ect

If it was 8K and you changed the oil frequently, you might be in luck.

 

[Dabigguy]

It is true that the bearing material is non-metallic, but the camshaft is metallic.

Let's think about this......there is a hunk of metal(the cam lobe) floating around in your engine somewhere. That piece is about the size of the tip of your thumb in the best case. Worse case it is in pieces from the size of an eraser to a fine metallic powder. Where did this stuff go? lifter valley, inside the lifters, oil pump, oil lines, turbo, bearings, inside the crank oiling holes, valve guides? Suppose you get 98% of the eraser sized chunks out and you miss just one........what happens to your engine when that piece becomes lodged on your oil pump gears at 5000 rpm? Your pump seizes and things go to Hell REALLY quickly.

Ultimately, this is your engine and you can do as you please, but you asked for thoughts on your solution.

I can understand your financial situation, I have two boys and a Buick habit. How much money will you spend on 5 gallons of fuel oil, 5qts of "light" oil, 5 qts of motor oil, 5-6 oil filters and 5 cans of brake clean? AND you are still rolling the dice on getting all of the metal out of the engine.

A gasket set, new bearings one oil change and a trip to the local wishy-wash to clean everything with hi-pressure soapy water would be about the same cost.

Good luck, keep us informed on how ya make out.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

The cam breaks apart like finger nail shillings, not all at once, remember this cam went bad over a course of 8,000 miles..


I agree, the best would be to pull the motor, pull the pan and timing covers off, then flip the motor over and see how the bearings are.

If its just bearings, pull the crank, spend some extra bucks getting the crank polished or cut, then purchase the correct bearings and reassemble.

Pull the pan off and check the bearings, until then we cant really tell you what to do.

Peace

BW