Complete DSE Suspension Build

scot w.

GNSperformance.com
Feb 19, 2005
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I would like to start this off with a little information on what we’re doing to our GNS test T-Type and our goals then move into the build process with pictures. Our goal with this car is to frequent Autocross & Road courses while keeping a Track Ready Street Friendly handling car whether it be on the street, at the drag strip or on a closed course. Our motto is "Function is Everything"!

We chose Detroit Speed & Engineering’s full G-Body suspension package as the suspension for our GNS Test car. One thing about DSE, They are pounding their cars every weekend, customers are pounding their cars every weekend, and most of the time a DSE equipped car is winning and that alone made it an easy choice for us.

GNS Performance is now an Authorized Dealer for all DSE products. See us for Member discounts!.

We will start off with some basic measurements to give us a base to start with.

Here are a few basic numbers on our GNS test car:

Wheel base: 2746mm - 108.1in

Track: Front: 1486mm - 58.5in / Rear: 1466mm - 57.7in

Length: 5095mm - 200.6in

Width: 1819mm - 71.6in

Height: 1387mm - 54.6in

Drag Coefficient: 0.410 (Tested by GM)

Current Tire / Wheel sizes: Wheel make- CCW / 3-Piece

FRONT WHEEL: 18" X 9.5" - 4.75 Back Spacing
REAR WHEEL: 18" X 10.0" - 4.75 Back Spacing

FRONT TIRE: 255-35/18
REAR TIRE: 285-40/18

NOTE: No rubbing issues at all with stock suspension!! Went to Hotchkis lowering springs in the rear only and it dropped it perfectly 1". Got minor rubbing so I rolled the lips with the moldings.

A lot more info on wheels & fitment here:http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/brakes-suspensions-tires-wheels/295464-18-ccw-wheels-scot-ws-car.html

Stock ride height from floor to wheel well lip w/CCW wheels:

FRONT: 25.5"
REAR: 27.75"

REAR ride height After installing the Hotchkis lowering springs = 26.75"

4-Corner Scaling: Done on (8/30/10)

Next we SCALED the car on all 4 corners to give us a weight on all 4 corners before installing the DSE suspension. After the installation we will re-scale the car to see how much weight was shaved and where. We will talk about front percentage when comparing weight percentages car to car and leave off the rear percent. The general goal with Pro-touring cars that are going to be competitive is to try and reach 50% front weight, but usually we only get to 53% to 51% at best.

Some like to do basic scaling with the driver, I prefer to scale it Without the driver just because the driver weight can vary depending on who it is or if there is a passenger. And you don't want to mess with placing 180to 200 lbs of weight in the car every time you do a corner balance.

When trying to even up cross weight you want to get as close to 50% as possible.

Here is what we had in the car had at Scaling..

* Full tank of gas just topped off!
* Nothing left inside the cars counsel /glove box, no floor mats.
* Nothing in the trunk.
* Tires at recommended pressure.

First we started with leveling the scales on the surface to make sure they were level before we started. This was done using a 6ft level across the scales, and then we jacked the car up in the center and lowered it onto the scales front & rear. With the whole car resting on all four individual scales we took measurements.

FRONT "CAR ONLY" :

* Left = 997 lbs
............................Total front "car only" = 1,953 lbs
* Right= 956 lbs

REAR "CAR ONLY"

* Left = 695 lbs
............................ Total Rear "car only" = 1,436 lbs

* Right = 741 lbs

Completed Percentages & Formula:

Front Bias: 1953 / 3389 = .57627 = 57.6%
Rear Bias: 1436 / 3389 = .42372 = 42.4%

The left front and right rear are heavier than they should be. The left side usually is heavier than the right, - "without driver". Next time we scale the car we will disconnect one end link on the front and rear anti roll bars when scaling, then connect them on the scales and shim them so they don't jack weight from one corner to the other. Doing this removes any unwanted bind the sway bars could be causing. Raising a spring perch on the LF corner will increase weight on the LF and RR corners.

Our left and right side weights add up to almost even, so by adjusting the heavy corners we should be able to balance them pretty close without driver.

Next post will be install pictures and more measurements.

SW.

Picture below is how the car sits now...
misc 008.jpg
 
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charlie547

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yes very cool. I cant wait to see the results. Might put this on my list of things for the future. Of course thats if the renters keep paying :mad:
 

charlief1

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Seems like we've read some of the same books Scott. There's more than what you will probibly post here but it's much more complicated. Thanks for posting this and maybe some of the other guys will understand what scaling a car will do for performance. Very good thread and I want to see where you go with the new stuff.
 

scot w.

GNSperformance.com
Feb 19, 2005
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DSE Suspension install Complete

Seems like we've read some of the same books Scott. There's more than what you will probibly post here but it's much more complicated. Thanks for posting this and maybe some of the other guys will understand what scaling a car will do for performance. Very good thread and I want to see where you go with the new stuff.
LOL ;)

I have only touched the surface and Yes it will probly get more complicated when I start touching on things like "Tortional Rigidity" and some other stuff. Some here seem to think that I don't know what i'm doing but will soon find out otherwise as in the case with my tires that were not supposed to fit. :)


It is 12:30 am here and I just walked in the door from DSE in Mooresville,NC. What a facility that is! We had to push Dale Earnhardt Jr's 1967 Camaro off the lift to make room for our TR Regal!!! ;) I missed Kyle Bush by one day picking up his camaro....bummer. That would have been nice to see him too and meet him.

I can't even begin to say how nice everyone is at DSE, Kyle Tucker (owner) changed clothes and jumped right in with his employee's and got filty!! Everyone there was so nice and made me feel right at home, it was a bummer to leave... This place is "Top Notch" and the craftsmanship and fabrication these guys do just blows me away, These guys know what there doing!! Stacy Tucker (Kyles wife) just got back tuesday from BG where she drove her "1969 Camaro" 8hrs from NC to KY and competed in several events by pounding on her car and drove it back 8hrs all filty from the rain, Washed it and loaded it up for another event this weekend where she will compete again... Good example of Part testing if iv'e ever seen it.. Kyle will have two company cars here this weekend competeing in our 4 RTTH events, His 1970 Camaro and his shop daily driver 1965 Chevelle...

The complete DSE suspension is now on the car and WOW what a Big difference!!! It's Crazy!!



The following parts were installed:

FRONT:
* DSE Upper & Lower tubular A-arms w/Delrin bushings
* DSE Hollow Tubular sway bar
* DSE Front frame braces
* DSE 2" Drop Springs
* DSE Shocks

REAR:
* DSE Upper & Lower Adjustable control arms
* DSE Rear 1 1/8" Chassis mounted Tubular Sway Bar
* DSE 2" Drop Springs
* DSE Shocks
* DSE Drive shaft loop


Tomorrow we will be thrashing on the GNS car to get it ready for Fridays RTTH event but as soon as I get an chance to go through the 200 pic's I took and the (2) 90min videos I took I will post them here with a small detailed write up with measurements, Alignment info, Ride height info ETC...

We were ALL very supprised on how easy these parts went on the G-Body TR.. They literally just fell into place without hassle! I was amazing to even see the front springs go in so easy with a floor jack!! It's on video! ;)

Okay, it's time to crash..Thanks for looking, Stay tuned for the interesting stuff!


Scot W.
 
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scot w.

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Okay, I have some time so I thought I would post up some pic's from my trip to DSE.


DSE Facility..

DSE 001.jpg



Kyle (owner) & Ryan (designer of the G-Body products) taking it for a spin on the proving ground course Before the install.
DSE 003.jpg



The car in the shop..Dale Earnhardt Jr's Camaro beside it to the left..
DSE 006.jpg



The DSE staff doing some evaluating/documenting before the tear down..
DSE 013.jpg



A look at the Front parts ready to install..
DSE 004.jpg



A look at the Rear parts ready to be installed..
DSE 005.jpg



Kyle Tuckers 1970 Camaro..
DSE 011.jpg



Customers Car being built... My dream car!
DSE 008.jpg



Dale Earnhardt Jr's 1967 Camaro..
DSE 010.jpg




Next, Give me a couple days to arrange the whole process into steps. I will also provide some good info to go along with each step that was made. A Bunch of stuff was measured/compared against the old & new products before installed. I will be adding every bit of info that was collected and the end results of the car now at the very end of this install.

Scot W.
 
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scot w.

GNSperformance.com
Feb 19, 2005
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Do I see a new steering box on the table? Why did you change that?
Well it was layed out and set to go on the car but in the end time was limited and the hose kit for it was not made yet so we had to hold off on that. It will be going on though very shortly after they get done making the hose kit for the G-Body cars. Once a good solid suspension is on your car you realize how sloppy the 20+ year old steering box really is!

DSE is also making a complete adjustable steering shaft as well so that will also be added very soon..

We aren't wasting any time putting the suspension to the real test! tomorrow is the autocross, then Sunday is the Drag & Speed / Stop Challenge. We have several people taking video for me and a bunch taking still shots so we will have a bunch to show here shortly.

Scot W.
 

The_Six

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Feb 28, 2009
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Great somthing else I have to start saving up for. On a side note I did some work on Jrs boat before it was delivered to him it was a small one only 110ft. I Wonder if my 68 firebird is what gave him the idea for the color on his they look a lot a like but I do have black deck stripes.
 

TurboDave

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Great somthing else I have to start saving up for. On a side note I did some work on Jrs boat before it was delivered to him it was a small one only 110ft. I Wonder if my 68 firebird is what gave him the idea for the color on his they look a lot a like but I do have black deck stripes.

Come on up to Smokey's stadium today and watch the fun!!!
 

TurboDave

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Probably most of he day, they got 72 cars to run. I left about a half hour ago. Got too much sun.
 

The_Six

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seen on line it was going to be over at 3 didnt think I would make it down in time. May have been a good thing if I would have got around you guys I may have got motivated to finish my car and if i spend any more cash on the car before the house is painted my wife may shoot me.
 

scot w.

GNSperformance.com
Feb 19, 2005
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Update

Okay guy's, The RTTH event is over and now I had time to put together some more pic's and info on the DSE build.

I guess I will start off with the front install. Overall all of these parts practically fell into place! None of it was a hassle to install nor did any of these parts give us a fit while installing. Everything has been Pre-measured to "Stock Specs" before they even go out the door so the fit is perfect.


Front Lower A-Arm installed

DSE 028.jpg



Front Upper A-Arm & 1/4" Camber shim prior to install. The 1/4" shim from the DSE "Track Shim Kit" is used as a baseline for alignment.

DSE 026.jpg



Front Upper A-Arm installed showing the shim installed as well..

DSE 031.jpg



Here are the A-Arms installed and completed..

DSE 048.jpg



Here we will install the front DSE sway bar.

In these pictures you see the DSE relocation bracket for the sway bar. This bracket is there to move the bar forward a bit from the stock location. (Not to worry it actually has MORE clearance now over the stock one!) Must be due to the design of the DSE sway bar it's self.

DSE 060.jpg

DSE 069.jpg



Here is a picture of the DSE patented sway bar "Swivel Links"tm installed. These were designed to eliminate "Bind" and allow for the front sway bar to articulate better with the front suspension to keep all 4 tires planted to the ground. In these pictures you can also see the shocks installed.
DSE 068.jpg



Here is the Sway bar mounted..
DSE 069.jpg
 
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scot w.

GNSperformance.com
Feb 19, 2005
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DSE Front Frame Braces

Here is a few pictures of the DSE front Frame Braces installed. There is still Plenty of room for front mount I/C pipes!
Note: These come with the purchase of the front sway bar!

DSE 074.jpg

DSE 075.jpg

DSE 076.jpg

DSE 077.jpg




The DSE "Drive Shaft Loop" installed..
DSE 072.jpg

DSE 073.jpg
 
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scot w.

GNSperformance.com
Feb 19, 2005
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Front Spring Measurements

Here I did a few measurements with the Front old springs compared to the new DSE springs.

Here are the results:

"Stock 24 yr old spring Height" = 14-1/8" Tall

DSE 017.jpg




DSE Front 2" drop spring Height = 12-1/16" Tall
DSE 018.jpg





NOTE: Although the DSE springs are considerably lower prior to going in the car. The ride height only dropped 7/8" inch!

OLD "Front" Ride Height = 25.5" (measuring from ground to fender lip).

New DSE "Front" Ride Height = 24 5/8" (Measuring from the exact same place as we did for the Old ride height)..





SW.
 
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