Court TV Drag Racing Trial

[TurboJunky]

Right now on Court TV they're showing live coverage from San Diego, CA on two guys who were drag racing and killed 2 innocent bystander/drivers. Very interesting....and sad.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/dragrace/

 

[blackshoebox]

It's Involuntary Manslaughter....

...When these two guys went to drag race they had no intent to kill anyone, where as 2nd degree murder is when you kill someone, and it is not premeditated(sp) although you attempt to do something to that person with the intent to kill or hurt them.(i.e shoot or stab this person) I think this trial also brings to light the issue about if someone wrecks while racing you should you be charged with manslaughter for there misfortune of wrecking? I say no, but some disagree..

Interesting to see how this will play out..

 

[TurboJunky]

Yea, I'm with you on that. I know state laws vary regarding levels of proof on crimes but I think it's a bit high. Here in Michigan we have Neglegent Homicide which is specifically driving related.

I feel a bit uneasy about the #2 guy who was in the race but not involved in the crash itself being charged the same as the guy who was actually in the crash.

It was interesting listening to the testimony about the car scene in San Diego. It was like the script from the Fast & Delirious with the weekly Sunday cookout/party at the same home, import dudes thinking they're fast etc. Even witnesses testified about kids and their Hondas who think they have fast cars and can't drive.

I couldn't imagine being hit by another car going 120mph. Two victims were killed instantly....what a mess.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Sorry but... you did the crime you do the time... even the guy who didnt wreck (but whipped a U turn and took off instead of seeing if anyones ok) is JUST as guilty... just because he was lucky enough to get away doenst take him out of the equation.. murder sounds good to me.

its ABSOLUTELY stupid to race on the street.. I learned my lesson more than once... thank God my actions didnt end in this. The real world has unknown factors like unsuspecting people in Geo Storms pulling into traffic because they dont expect two dumbasses to be barreling down the road at 90 mph.. Maybe these two retards will serve as a lesson to everyone else keep this crap at the strip.

 

[TurboTer]

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks it's second degree murder is an outright idiot. Second degree murder is INTENT to kill. Did this guy intend to kill anyone? No way in hell. His extreme neglegance caused someone's death. That is involuntary manslaughter. As for what the other guy should get charged with? Wreckless driving. That's it.

 

[whitehot84]

I think all the evidence against the 2nd driver is strictly circumstantial. The real idiot was the Geo driver who tried to beat the traffic. I feel terrible about the deaths, but all the blame shouldn't be placed on the racer.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Originally posted by whitehot84
I think all the evidence against the 2nd driver is strictly circumstantial. The real idiot was the Geo driver who tried to beat the traffic. I feel terrible about the deaths, but all the blame shouldn't be placed on the racer.

Nighttime crash .... and these two BRILLIANT people are racing with their headlights off... yeah its the poor girl going 12 mph's fault....

 

[Rogue Leader]

Originally posted by TurboTer
I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks it's second degree murder is an outright idiot. Second degree murder is INTENT to kill. Did this guy intend to kill anyone? No way in hell. His extreme neglegance caused someone's death. That is involuntary manslaughter. As for what the other guy should get charged with? Wreckless driving. That's it.

He didnt intend to kill anyone... neither did his buddy he was racing... but in going out there and racing down the highway (breaking the laws by ALOT) you know that ANYTHING can happen... because the real world is using the roads as they are intended! And he knew (probably in the back of his mind) SOMEONE could die...

By that logic I should go into a Carnival with a flame thrower and shoot it around... yeah i am not intending to light anyone on fire, but if someone happens to jump in the way accidentally, whose fault is it truly???

Reckless driving???? thats a slap on the wrist thats such a joke! The guy should at least get the same sentence as the other guy who hit the people... if he werent there the race never would have happened (same as if the other guy wasnt).

Man doesnt anyone realize its truly STUPID to race on the street and its not the fault of people attempting to use the roads normally but those that are doing the STUPID act of drag racing on a public road where they know beforehand ANYTHING can happen??? People crash every day at low speed all over the place... now just quadruple the damage because youre going 90 mph with your lights off.... yeah its not their fault

 

[turbojimmy]

Originally posted by Rogue Leader
Nighttime crash .... and these two BRILLIANT people are racing with their headlights off... yeah its the poor girl going 12 mph's fault....

I'm with you. How the hell would anyone ever expect that a car would be racing toward them going nearly twice the speed limit with their headlights off? How was she "trying to beat traffic"?! Those guys deserve whatever they get. I agree there was no intent to kill, but the risks were obvious.

Before anyone says it: This is from a guy with a 6/30/03 court date for going 75 in a 45 with his 2-year old in the back. I wasn't racing....just stretching the GN's legs so to speak.

Jim

 

[whitehot84]

Only one of them had his lights out.

By the same logic used above, this wouldn't have happened had these teens not been out there after dark at a known drag race spot.

Don't get me wrong. I don't agree with racing anywhere there is a possibility of someone pulling out of a side street and surely the racers saw the oncoming cars. That should have been a signal to shut down immediately.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Originally posted by whitehot84
Only one of them had his lights out.
By the same logic, this wouldn't have happened had these teens been out there after dark at a known drag race spot.

Its legal to drive the speed limit on the roads... its not legal to race up and down them like an idiot

 

[whitehot84]

Originally posted by Rogue Leader
Its legal to drive the speed limit on the roads... its not legal to race up and down them like an idiot

And if they had been doing the speed limit and this happened who would have been at fault? No flames . Just food for thought.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Originally posted by whitehot84
And if they had been doing the speed limit and this happened who would have been at fault? No flames . Just food for thought.

The girl for pulling into traffic... but if you wanna speculate, the girl may not have pulled out if she saw their headlights, plus if they werent speeding they wouldnt have gotten there so fast and had time to react ... and if sh cmpletely made it on to the roadway and they rearended her THEY would STILL be at fault although luckily very likely noone would be dead...

We can speculate this to death... nothing you can possibly can say can change the fact that it absolutely stupid to drag race on public roads, and you KNOW the risks going in and deserve the consequences coming out!

 

[whitehot84]

Originally posted by Rogue Leader
We can speculate this to death... nothing you can possibly can say can change the fact that it absolutely stupid to drag race on public roads, and you KNOW the risks going in and deserve the consequences coming out!

Point taken, as I said above.

The only argument I am making is if she didn't see two headlights would it have been likely that she would have seen four?

 

[equalizer442]

The prosecutor also showed jurors photos of modifications both men had made to their vehicles and charged that the special instrument panels and stripped interiors were an attempt to "beef up" the vehicles with extra horsepower and speed for illegal racing.

sounds like the prosecutor should take some basic auto mechanics classes

 

[turbojimmy]

Only one of them had his lights out.

Well that makes it okay then. Even with the headlights on, it would be tough to judge the distance of someone going nearly twice the speed limit coming at you.

By the same logic used above, this wouldn't have happened had these teens not been out there after dark at a known drag race spot.

So there are certain PUBLIC roads that people are to avoid in order to not get killed? People can't drive "after dark" on a public road without fearing for their lives? Call me naive or stupid, but I know street racing goes on around here but I have no idea where or when. I shudder at the thought of me and my family in some unfamiliar area (on vacation, after visiting friends house, whatever) happening upon a "street race". I'm sorry, but if you're on a public road doing really stupid things then you must suffer the consequences. I know it goes on all the time and these stories are thankfully very rare, but it's still idiotic and irresponsible.

Jim

 

[87GP]

Based on my definition of second-degree mureder, keep in mind states vary on definition, I think the charge is correct. Intent is not neccessarliy needed as proof for second-degree. From my criminal law and procedure text book:

"Second-degree murder commonly requires proof that the accused was guilty of imminently dangerous or outreagous conduct, albeit not maliciuos in the common law sense of malice aforethought."



So, should he have known that drag racing could have caused serious injury to another party? Yes, thats just common sense. He placed innocent drivers and pedestrians in imminent danger because of his actions. Like sated above his intention were not malicious but just dumb.


Cj

 

[Rogue Leader]

Originally posted by whitehot84
Point taken, as I said above.

The only argument I am making is if she didn't see two headlights would it have been likely that she would have seen four?

coming at her at 90mph... who knows... have you ever seen a car pass you when youre stopped at that speed and you dont expect it???

youre still speculating!

 

[Rogue Leader]

Originally posted by 87GP
Based on my definition of second-degree mureder, keep in mind states vary on definition, I think the charge is correct. Intent is not neccessarliy needed as proof for second-degree. From my criminal law and procedure text book:

"Second-degree murder commonly requires proof that the accused was guilty of imminently dangerous or outreagous conduct, albeit not maliciuos in the common law sense of malice aforethought."



So, should he have known that drag racing could have caused serious injury to another party? Yes, thats just common sense. He placed innocent drivers and pedestrians in imminent danger because of his actions. Like sated above his intention were not malicious but just dumb.


Cj

second degree it is then!

 

[whitehot84]

Originally posted by turbojimmy
Only one of them had his lights out.

Well that makes it okay then. Even with the headlights on, it would be tough to judge the distance of someone going nearly twice the speed limit coming at you.

By the same logic used above, this wouldn't have happened had these teens not been out there after dark at a known drag race spot.

So there are certain PUBLIC roads that people are to avoid in order to not get killed? People can't drive "after dark" on a public road without fearing for their lives? Call me naive or stupid, but I know street racing goes on around here but I have no idea where or when. I shudder at the thought of me and my family in some unfamiliar area (on vacation, after visiting friends house, whatever) happening upon a "street race". I'm sorry, but if you're on a public road doing really stupid things then you must suffer the consequences. I know it goes on all the time and these stories are thankfully very rare, but it's still idiotic and irresponsible.

Jim

From the article:
On Oct. 6, Waller, a 32-year-old school custodian, met up with Calhoun, a 29-year-old employed by a heating and air conditioning company, on a quarter-mile stretch of Imperial Avenue known for drag racing.

Also these kids were not from out of town and more than likely were out to watch a race or two.

Once more: I do not condone what happened but I still don't see them trying the second driver for murder in any degree.