Didn't Mark Lifters Order When Removing - Do I need a new cam?

[Terbro]

I just purchased a 6K original miles motor. I took off the heads in preparation for the new GN1's I have coming. In my ignorance, I took out the lifters and rods, and didn't mark their positioning in the motor. I just had a GN buddy tell me that because of "work hardening" produced by heat between the cam and the lifters, that one should not reuse the cam and lifters if you don't put them back in the original position.

My question is, how much truth is there to this? Does it matter that the motor only has 6K? Does it matter that the cam looks excellent (like one would expect)?

I'd much perfer to leave the stock cam in there, with all the "my cam went bad" stories I've read.

TIA.

P.S. I'd really appreciate only truly qualified opinions. With issues like this, I can often get the entire range of opinions. And without checking one's motor expertise résumé, it's difficult to know how much weight to give each person's feedback.

 

[KendallF]

I'm not giving you a resume...but I think everyone's advice to you will be the same. Throw the lifters away. You can buy new lifters and break them in on the old cam, but the old lifters have wear patterns for a specific lobe and will fail in very short order if they're mixed up.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

second that

toss em and put new lifters in on old cam with break in lube and treat it like a new cam break in when you fire it..

better yet dont be silly and put heads on it and leave a stock cam in it...thats crazy

i'd almost bet it will loose power with gn-1's and stock cam..it will definatly loose torqe

 

[bob86gn]

Agreed, replace the lifters. (My truly qualified response)

I agree with Red. Heads and a cam work together. The car will run with the stock cam but something a little bigger will help make the power you bought the heads for. There are plenty of good hydraulic cams out there that people have had great success with. There are a million "my XXXX went bad" stories for any parts. (Do a search under GN-1 and see how many you get!)

 

[Scott231]

Remember, it is a double-edged sword. If you go with better flowing heads and a bigger cam...you'll prolly need a looser torque converter IF you want to get the maximum potential out of your changes.

 

[jmidolo]

Make sure you buy the GM lifters and not the aftermarket Johnson/Sealed power lifters found at most Napa/Autozone stores. They cost a bit more, but are worth the extra $ compared to the cost of eating a cam.

Joe

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

Originally posted by jmidolo
Make sure you buy the GM lifters and not the aftermarket Johnson/Sealed power lifters found at most Napa/Autozone stores. They cost a bit more, but are worth the extra $ compared to the cost of eating a cam.

Joe

disagree

guess who GM buys em from

 

[jmidolo]

Ever put em' side by side? Not the same, chief....

 

[Scott231]

Joe - you sure about that? Are you comparing today's GM lifters to today's Johnson lifters?

My understanding is that Johnson=GM=Sealed Power=Blue Wolverine. As long as the lifter you are looking at is Made in the USA, it should be the same (assuming of course that the lifter isn't made in Saipan or Puerto Rico which are territories of the U.S. that are allowed to use the "Made In USA" moniker for Customs purposes...but I digress into the world of Duty charges that'll bore the beegeesus out of any sane person.)

 

[jmidolo]

Unless they changed (which they very well could have) but when I rebuilt my motor..back in 98, they were not the same at all. The base of the lifter where it rides on the lobes on a GM lifter had a different color from the rest of the metal, (Like it was hardened or a different metal) and visibly different than a regular Johnson lifter. So, 1998 to now is a long time, but back then they were in fact different I could be wrong as they may have changed like you said though.

Joe

 

[Scott231]

Lifters discussion

You are correct Joe. I just checked with my "source" (Lonnie Diers) who told me that GM lifters are unique. Johnson makes lifters for Sealed Power and Blue Wolverine. Eaton lifters are sold by Lunati. Crane make their own. Can't think of any others right now...

 

[jmidolo]

Good to know that is still the case then. Like I said, it has been 5 yrs. But I knew back then they were in fact different. If you compare them side by side, there is a DEFINATE difference. Did you happen to ask him the price?

Back then, A set of Sealed Power would run you about 28 bux for all 12. The GM ones were about $85. Like I said about triple the cost..but much cheaper than if you munch a cam!

Hey, anymore Andover trips??

Joe

 

[Scott231]

No word on current price. But Lonnie did mention that over the years he was able to prove to himself that the brand of lifter does not matter (I ran the Blue Wolverine [Johnson's] for 7 years on FAST V6 wtihout a problem). If you have a block that eats camshafts, it may always eat cams. If you have a block that doesn't necessarily "always eat cams", you still have to get a proper break-in with new lifters...or goodbye cam.

BTW, I only changed my lifters last winter cuz during the rebuild process I mixed up two of the lifters (yes, I had placed them in the proper order in a box until needed). Rather than taking the 50/50 gamble on those two possibly going in the wrong bore, I spent $30 on a new set. Bought the Sealed Power box and had the same identical lifters as the old ones. Broke them in and no idications of a problem this year.

Our office in Andover is due to close in less than 2 years. My best guess says we will not be making any more trips up to Andover.

 

[Joe 1320]

Seems like there is agreement on regular lifters, but what about rollers? They wouldn't have the same type of wear pattern......

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

when i pulled my motor down for the first time i took an original lifter and compared it to a sealed power 969 lifter to see what all the (experts) were talking about and i took then completely apart and mic'd every piece in them and found no difference in any piece of them

I pulled apart a comp cams lifter also and it was slightly different

 

[Scott231]

Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR
i took then completely apart and mic'd every piece in them and found no difference in any piece of them

You found no difference in size...the GM piece is a different molecular piece of metal (some metallurgical term like cold-skilled metal) . further,the GM lifter is manufactured to tighter tolerances. I wonder if you found no difference when comparing a used GM lifter to a new Johnson lifter. Used vs, new = Apple vs. Orange on a high-wear piece IMO.

 

[jmidolo]

Right, I believe I said Visually different, and they looked to be hardened...or you could use that techy term

 

[Grumpy]

please leave Andover outta this ......ahhhh the lifter game....Dan doesnt play that one!!! I only use GM's...when I work on them here your doin it MY way Right Joe

ohh Terbo how fast do ya wanna go??? had a guy here that just ran 11.1s @124+ with a stock short block and converter...just bolted on GN1s

 

[jmidolo]

Considering what we spend on these cars for the silliest "novelty" items...for instance...$150+ for floor mats w/a power 6 on them, $25 for a set of door pull strap covers w/a 6 on them, $75 for an arm rest, an all the other gadgets, gizmoes, bells, whistles, lights, etc that make all GN owners unique...

And then there are the go fast items...1200 for champs, 1000 for an intercooler, 600-2500 for a turbo, 2000 dollar transmissions, 900 buc convertors...

Then there are the gimmicky things that people put on that have been proven to really have little if any effect...ram air (looks cool), volt boosters, tps bla blas, snake oil, mystery can...

An Extra $60 spent on lifters that could save you 1000s if you eat a cam is a "no brainer" in my book

 

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by Joe 1320
Seems like there is agreement on regular lifters, but what about rollers? They wouldn't have the same type of wear pattern......

Anyone?