Does an adjustable chip make sense for me?

[Bob Smith]

I'm new to this game & just purchased a 12,000 mile 1987 "T". I want to maintain as much originality as possible, while improving performance. I want to keep the stock turbo, intercooler, injectors & the stock type Bosch fuel regulator (I understand the TTA's use a similar style with higher pressure). I don't want to use an adjustable wastegate. I just purchased a PSM cold air induction system, test pipe (I want to use original exhaust), hot wire kit & a Scanmaster. I'm considering the progressive Alky Razor system. Again I'm new to this & I'm no mechanic, but the adjustable thumbwheel chip seems to make the most sense for my application. I'm thinking I can use the chip @ a lower setting while cruising & then increase the setting to a higher level (using the Scanmaster to determine the highest setting for my car) when utilizing the alcohol injection @ the drag strip. Does this seem like an reasonable approach or am I missing something? Any & all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks for helping me figure out my new hobby!

 

[suicide six]

Bob if you want to leave it stock then do so,upgrading the fuel side is recommended even if its kept stock.

 

[Matt Sando]

contact Eric at TURBOTWEAK he has the best chips available.

 

[Lee_Burough]

Welcome!

Just take your time....Nothing rushing a decision is there?

If you're not going to install an adjustable wastegate actuator, I see no reason to do anything else, save for a modern chip.....Without an adjustable wastegate, you wouldn't/couldn't take advantage of any modification....

My advice for a modest improvement in performance would be the scan tool, chip, adjustable wastegate actuator, hot wire for the FP and an Alchy kit, and, maybe a big neck intercooler and bosch 237 fuel pressure regulator. If the original FPump is still in there, I'd change it to a walbro 340.

Do a lot of reading here and GNTTYPE.org before you do anything. :smile:

P.S. Install an audible knock detector right away.

 

[Gary Wells]

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/index.html

Highly recommended reading.

Steve Wood's site

 

[Lee_Burough]

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/index.html

Highly recommended reading.

Steve Wood's site

I agree, I should have included Steve Woods site ....

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

You can use the stock non adjustable wastegate and not even have to mess with it to get more boost. I wouldnt start with getting the boost up first.

Replace the fuel pump and filter and install that hotwire kit.
The stock fuel pressure reg will be about 42-45psi with the good pump, so no AFTERMARKET regulator is really needed with this setup.

Then figure out if you want to run Julios meth kit, and just get ONE chip that suites the needs for the car 100% of the time.

Erics chips you can adjust your fueling and timing, he also can adjust the defaults in the chip to the fuel percentage and timing at wide open throttle in the chip incase you unplug the battery, or just cant seem to get the tune correctly, taking you back to square one.
With erics chip, you wont need to flip a switch on the dial to set what you think the timing is, erics setup is made for you and everyone else who wants lots of easy power. Eric will also sell you a chip that is going to be very close to someone elses chip program that they have tweaked on to get it right.

The thumbwheel chip is a dinosaur, erics new chips are in car control and you set the parameters with a scantool (scanmaster) ac controls and your gas pedal.

Since your injectors are stock, they normally run 100% duty cycle at wot, that means they are open flow when your getting after it.

Erics website is in my signature. Mr Turbotweak

My daily driver is the combo you want.
It has the following
Stock turbo, ic,injectors,heads never off, 3 inch downpipe(not stock) but not really needed at the stock turbo level anyway.
I have a methanol kit and use erics chips and my daily driver runs mid 12s on radial FIRESTONE tires.

Now with Erics METH chip and Julios METH injection system, you must realize that your boost will need to be around 20psi to start getting it tuned correctly because it will be really rich at 15psi of boost.

I run lower boost and higher timing, my boost is 21psi and 28° of timing in first gear, then the timing tapers to 25° by third gear when the chip locks the torque convertor.
Your car to start will most likely be 23° to 25° in first and then taper down to 21°, it really depends on the weight of the car and what power level you are looking for.

I have Eric turn my fans on at 154° and never shut them off even on the highway. Lock the convertor at 58mph for normal daily driving, and i need to get him to reburn my chip for lean cruise mode. My last tank only got 20MPG :frown:
It makes plenty of power to have fun with
BW

 

[Bob Smith]

I appreciate all of the input!! I wasn't aware of the other sites & chip options available.

 

[Ormand]

The stock fuel pressure reg will be about 42-45psi

I don't think so. The stock pressure regulator was set low by the factory, to help the wimpy fuel pump. The range, from the shop manual, is 34-40 psi. For the TTA, the range is higher, and if you want to keep the stock "look", it's worth going to the TTA regulator.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

I don't think so. The stock pressure regulator was set low by the factory, to help the wimpy fuel pump. The range, from the shop manual, is 34-40 psi. For the TTA, the range is higher, and if you want to keep the stock "look", it's worth going to the TTA regulator.

Add a higher GPM fuel pump that is getting 13.5 volts with a hotwire kit and then you get more pressure at the rail.
I dont even own a shop manual for the turbo buick, whats that for

BW

 

[Ormand]

Add a higher GPM fuel pump that is getting 13.5 volts with a hotwire kit and then you get more pressure at the rail.

Whether you own a shop manual or not, you should have some idea of how the fuel pressure regulator works, and apparently you do not. The pump will ONLY supply fuel at the pressure controlled by the regulator. If you hot wire the pump, put in a better, bigger pump, the static pressure will be the same. The regulator will bypass enough fuel to keep the pressure down to the set point. Eventually, if your engine is using enough fuel to exceed pump capacity, then the pressure will go below the setting of the regulator. Or, if you put a humongous pump, you can exceed the flow capability of the bypass line. Then the regulator won't be able to control pressure.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

I guess your just book smart and have no real world source of input on this topic.
Let me make it simple for you.

Im right your wrong, who pissed in your cereal bowl?

BW

 

[Ormand]

Im right your wrong,

Now you've made another mistake. Before, I thought maybe you were just ignorant of the facts. Now I see that you are not quite all there- some sort of "mental challenge"? I've been working with pumps, valves, and other fluid flow components in my profession for almost 40 years. I have many, many references, and "real world" input to back up my statements of fact. My cereal does get a little hard to swallow when some pretender comes along and tries to pass off his misunderstandings as "good advice", and thereby risks someone else's time and money.
For example, you stated that "The stock fuel pressure reg will be about 42-45psi with the good pump". That is clearly incorrect, and there are many sources, other that the shop manual, which you might have used to find the correct info. GnTType.org, for example. For some years, many owners were "crushing" a stock regulator to get the pressure up into the range you stated. The turbo TA regulator was also substituted, because it would raise the pressure above the stock level. I could go on, but why bother....

 

[Lee_Burough]

Quick6 and Ormand are both right, they just seem to be a little sharp on the edges this week. Bob, I assure you that they are both grown ups and both very knowledgable....

The regulator does just that to the fuel pressure. Regulator aside, the 340 and good voltage will increase the fuel flow and pressure 'available' to the fuel rail....The regulator controls the return flow to the tank, thus controlling the pressure at the rail.

Red Armstrong writes that the Bosch 237 regulator is 45 PSI, plus or minus less than one PSI (consistant with my experience). That is what you want. Get one and get a modern chip (made for a steady 45 PSI) and you'll be fine.

The days of needing to change fuel pressure to change air fuel ratios are almost gone, because for the hp most of us make, modern chips will change the fuel more reliably and over a larger, dependable range of fuel available....A much better way to go in my view. The new chip programming has suttle changes in the fuel flow curves that are almost 'plug 'n play'....Very little need to change much after its been custom made for your combination.

:biggrin:

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Now you've made another mistake. Before, I thought maybe you were just ignorant of the facts. Now I see that you are not quite all there- some sort of "mental challenge"? I've been working with pumps, valves, and other fluid flow components in my profession for almost 40 years. I have many, many references, and "real world" input to back up my statements of fact. My cereal does get a little hard to swallow when some pretender comes along and tries to pass off his misunderstandings as "good advice", and thereby risks someone else's time and money.
For example, you stated that "The stock fuel pressure reg will be about 42-45psi with the good pump". That is clearly incorrect, and there are many sources, other that the shop manual, which you might have used to find the correct info. GnTType.org, for example. For some years, many owners were "crushing" a stock regulator to get the pressure up into the range you stated. The turbo TA regulator was also substituted, because it would raise the pressure above the stock level. I could go on, but why bother....

It really doesnt matter boss!
Bob already has a upgraded fuel pump and the TTA fuel pressure regulator prior to our posts so no money or time was wasted.

Do you eat cheerios because of their low fat sugar and great taste, or do you eat them because they make you such a nice person to be around?



BW

 

[Bob Smith]

Hey guy's,
Sorry I've been away from my computer the last several days & missed all of the fireworks. I do appreciate everyone's input! You're all helping me hone in on what I'm trying to accomplish. I'll review where I'm at & what I'm trying to accomplish. I have a low mileage '87 Limited that I want to keep as stock as possible. I like the idea of alcohol injection to protect against detonation, but I don't want to run alcohol all of the time. That's why I posed the adjustable chip question. The following upgrades have been completed: hot wire kit, upgraded pump, 237 regulator, test pipe, K&N filter. These cars are 20 years old & most folks will soon be trying to put these cars back to their original stock configuration, that's why I want to maintain the stock turbo, wastegate, injectors, innercooler & non-adjustable regulator. I realize performance will be limited by these stock componets, but I'm thinking I can optimize my performance with alcohol & a blank thumbwheel chip programmed by someone like Eric. I haven't yet had the opportunity to speak directly to Eric, but hope to be able to do so sometime this week. I don't like the idea of changing out the chip in the kick panel every time I want to use alcohol. I'm not looking to run into the 10's or 11's.

Is it unrealistic to run high 12's with these stock components, alcohol & a chip programmed by someone like Eric? I'm trying to get outside of the old paradigm of changing everything out, when I would be happy with high 12's.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions!

 

[buzzman]

I own a very low mile gn and wanted gto maximize the stock set-up. I basically followed Reds street recipe to a tee. He sent it out with a newsletter. I have similar mods as you are planning with one exception. the biggest single gain in performance on my car was replacing the stock crossflow exhaust with the hooker system. i test the car after a mod and found that i picked up 3/10 over the stock setup. At first I picked up 2/10th by just going with the test pipe, then added the cat-back system and picked up another 3/10th.......and that is a lot. My car looks bone stock except for the 237 written on the regulator and a shorty solid maf and 8 in KN which i also strongly recommend. I also have a dutt neck cooler which was worth a performance gain. However due to the increased air in, i have to add alittle 100 octane when fueling to avoid kr.

 

[Lee_Burough]

Hey guy's,
....Snip....But I don't want to run alcohol all of the time. That's why I posed the adjustable chip question....I'm trying to get outside of the old paradigm of changing everything out, when I would be happy with high 12's.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions!

The new progressive alcohol systems only spray at WOT....You do not need to change chips....Drive around on 93 octane and boost and spray whenever you want to, otherwise its just 93 octane....ONE chip.