E51 available at the pump

Az671

New Member
Nov 4, 2018
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Arizona
My chip is setup for E85 and 22/24 boost. Does that mean I need to turn down boost to compensate for E51? I bought the car with E85 setup.
 

DavzGN

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2001
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Waterloo, Wisconsin
Depending on the chip you may need to turn boost, timing and amount of fuel delivered down across the board

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
 

MikeS

Member
Oct 30, 2012
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Like Davzgn said. Turbotweak chip? If you simply switched fuels it may be a bit rich and not quite as knock resistant. If it were my car I'd turn the timing down in 3rd/4th gear to pump gas level (18 degrees), back the boost off a little, and then work your way back up watching the scan master for knock. I've run e85/93 at various mixes and sprayed alky on top of that using the WOT adjustment in the chip and also by adjusting fuel pressure at the regulator.

I read some lab study that suggested e42 had nearly as much knock resistance as e85, so you may not be far off.
 

MikeS

Member
Oct 30, 2012
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In Arizona, it is e-54, and for street driving it should fine based upon your build.

If you have any questions, or want to discuss this, call me.
Nick, what boost and timing are your builds typically using with E54, and what is your target air/fuel ratio?
 

Nick Micale

Tech Advisor
Staff member
May 26, 2001
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www.ArizonaGN.com
For street builds there is very little difference in performance between e-85 and e-54, as the RPM is usually under 6000.

My e-54 street car which has a 270 cu. in. w/alum heads and solid roller, I add a can of Boostane additive which is good as a stabilizer and according to the manufacturer will up the octane.

The race tunes are up to 7000 RPM and timing is limited to 18-19 degrees at WOT. With the FAST computer, we program to take out 2-3 degrees of timing before the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. This takes lots of track passes to build the fuel and timing tables.

With gas, the optimum A/F is 9.5, or if can be calibrated with Fast to give values as gas which would be 11.2 at WOT.
 

forcefed3.8's

Buckeye Bullet
May 26, 2002
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North Ridgeville, Ohio
I dont understand why the chip would only be for 22 to 24 psi. E85 can handle way more. With that said, E51 will handle that boost and timing, but will be richer. You can actually turn the boost up if you wanted to.
 

JP112_89

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2008
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I dont understand why the chip would only be for 22 to 24 psi. E85 can handle way more. With that said, E51 will handle that boost and timing, but will be richer. You can actually turn the boost up if you wanted to.
I'm sure he means the timing is 24/22 for Eric's E85 chip.
 

jasjamz

THS Racer
Sep 30, 2004
5,336
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Chicago area
The OP should stick to 93 and alky or real E85. Yes the car will run richer on E5x because it contains more 87 octane than E85 but loses some of the resistance to detonation the E85 mixture has. For a new owner on an E85 car your warnings are broken parts or blown headgaskets. If you want mixed fuels you need to get a flex fuel sensor and a ECU which can read it and be programmed for mixed fuels.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
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Does that mean I need to turn down boost to compensate for E51? I
no, you would need to add volume or a richer afr,then you could run any boost level.most dont really need all that ethanol to run there power level.
 

GNVYUS 1

Active Member
Dec 15, 2002
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IL
This E51 pump is awesome, we have E85, E30 and E15 at a Woodman's 2 miles away from me so I blend. I've been running E50 in both of my other sports cars for two years now, one is my Talon running 28psi and 17 degrees timing with an intercooler pushing 140 temps at high boost.

There's not a big difference after E50 in power and detonation reduction vs E85 but a nice difference in injector duty cycle. I'll be running my newest GN engine on E50 and alky on 80lbs Inj with plenty of headroom room at 50psi base pressure.
 

MikeS

Member
Oct 30, 2012
79
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This E51 pump is awesome, we have E85, E30 and E15 at a Woodman's 2 miles away from me so I blend. I've been running E50 in both of my other sports cars for two years now, one is my Talon running 28psi and 17 degrees timing with an intercooler pushing 140 temps at high boost.

There's not a big difference after E50 in power and detonation reduction vs E85 but a nice difference in injector duty cycle. I'll be running my newest GN engine on E50 and alky on 80lbs Inj with plenty of headroom room at 50psi base pressure.
This has been my experience as well. With 80lb injectors and e85 I can hit about 24psi, with an ~e50 mix I've gone as high as 30psi and 19 degrees of timing. The only thing that scares me away from running that high all the time is an occasional blip of knock, which appears to be false, from either the constant wheel spin or something metal hitting on initial acceleration.
 

turbo89

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2002
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Most of the benefit of E85 comes in the front .. meaning ... going from E10 to E50-60 is where 85% of the gain is ..

Going from E70 to E85 are minimal gains... I spent a ton of time testing going from E85 to E100 .. totally a waste of time , money , energy .. gained nothing.

All this being said I can tell you from previous experience .. If your using E85 and have it maximized and set on kill.. and back off to E50 .. your car wont be happy .. I'd bet though this isn't the case ... maximizing E85 tunes doesn't seem to be common with most. Everyone seems to run it ridiculous rich and way low on timing.

If you can get E85 .. why not just use that .. if you can't then let the car tell you what it can handle ...
 

Az671

New Member
Nov 4, 2018
16
0
1
Arizona
Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I’m in the process making sure everything is working from fuel pressure increase on boost to stable volts to the pump. I still have this minor leak on turbo flange on the exhaust. Nick Micale has provided great knowledge and resources when I stop by his place.
 
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