E85 Conversion Setup Input needed

[BIGONTS]

I'm putting together my E85 fuel system and need some input. I definitely want to stay with an intank pump and preferably a single pump. Currently, the car is making about 500hp @ 25psi with the mods in my sig. That's what it dynoed at on 93 octane gas with a dual nozzle Alky system about 2 years ago before the engine rebuild and a few upgrades. Probably won’t be pushing it passed that. I going to upgrade the lines to -8 and -6 with the Raceronix fuel line kit. I’m also considering their 430LPH Walbro turbine pump set up: http://racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=FPS%2DG7W416EAN&eq=&Tp=

I think that about $650 +/- for a bolt in fuel system from Racetronix is not a bad deal for the upgrade as I already have 83lb injectors. I'll probably send the Alky pump back for a rebuild and sell the entire system to cover some of the costs.

My other option is the Bosch 044 which is a proven pump and installing it the way GNVYUS 1 did in one of his threads.

Please let me know why I should or shouldn’t go with each pump and any other recommendations. Thanks

 

[Nick Micale]

With a similar engine build with a TE-45A and 120# injectors we were able to pull 520 RWHP with an in-tank Red's double-pumper, and this was using stock lines.

At 23psi the duty cycle was only in the high 60's, of course this was on e-85, and using a FAST system.

Would not hurt to upgrade the lines to be safe!

 

[BIGONTS]

With a similar engine build with a TE-45A and 120# injectors we were able to pull 520 RWHP with an in-tank Red's double-pumper, and this was using stock lines.

At 23psi the duty cycle was only in the high 60's, of course this was on e-85, and using a FAST system.

Would not hurt to upgrade the lines to be safe!

Thanks for the input. Lines are getting upgraded anyway for insurance. I had that turbo on one of my Buick's back in the day and it was awesome. Trying to track one down eventually. Was this through the stock rails with a single feed and stock-style FPR mounted on the rail? With that setup, were both pumps on all the time with the double-pumper?

 

[Nick Micale]

Yes, it was a stock rail with the regulator mounted there, and both pumps were running.

Our base pressure was well into the 60's when the second pump was running, and it was controlled by a manual switch.

A TE-45A is an awesome street turbo especially with a Garrett exhaust housing.

I would bet that Bison could fix you up with that turbo combination.

 

[696]

I would go with what you listed but add 120's and a double pumper.

 

[BIGONTS]

Anyone use the Walbro 416LPH/Racetronix 430LPH?

Some testing info from local shop.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sh...lbro-416lph-vs.-Walbro-255lph-vs.-Supra-Denso

 

[TurboBob]

those big pumps are nice, but the stock return line will not handle it. if running an upgraded set of lines, then you can go that way.

Bob

 

[Nick Micale]

I have used the 416 pump in 2 e-85 turbo cars, and one was my personal street car.

All we did was change the return line to use the 5/16" stock vent line, and we were able to show 500+ RWHP with 96# injectors and duty cycle in the high 60's. This is a very simple and easy option in many cases.

On my car I changed the fuel rail fittings to -AN, but still used the stock supply line and filter, but data from street car logs show very little difference in both cars.

Also, with these 2 cars, and other similar e-85 conversions, they seem like a higher base fuel pressure 10-15 psi over the generally used gasoline based fuel of 44 psi.

We are still learning about tuning on race cars using e-85 vs. race gas, but we do know there is a different approach between the 2.

 

[dvernst]

I have used the 416 pump in 2 e-85 turbo cars, and one was my personal street car.

All we did was change the return line to use the 5/16" stock vent line, and we were able to show 500+ RWHP with 96# injectors and duty cycle in the high 60's. This is a very simple and easy option in many cases.

On my car I changed the fuel rail fittings to -AN, but still used the stock supply line and filter, but data from street car logs show very little difference in both cars.

Also, with these 2 cars, and other similar e-85 conversions, they seem like a higher base fuel pressure 10-15 psi over the generally used gasoline based fuel of 44 psi.

We are still learning about tuning on race cars using e-85 vs. race gas, but we do know there is a different approach between the 2.

Wondering what is your determining factor for the higher base FP? I've tried + or - about 5 psi trying to eliminite a minor tip in stumble, bit didn't really notice a difference either way.

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[Nick Micale]

When the base pressure was set to 55 PSI, the the tip-in stumble went away in my street car,

The race car has a much looser converter and an external Aeromotive pump and was never a problem there.

One local TR was set to 65 PSI on a single in-tank pump, and the second pump was on a manual switch and this car developed 525 RWHP and drove home with the AC on!

This just illustrates how cars can differ on what tune and setting make them happy!

 

[BIGONTS]

When the base pressure was set to 55 PSI, the the tip-in stumble went away in my street car,

The race car has a much looser converter and an external Aeromotive pump and was never a problem there.

One local TR was set to 65 PSI on a single in-tank pump, and the second pump was on a manual switch and this car developed 525 RWHP and drove home with the AC on!

This just illustrates how cars can differ on what tune and setting make them happy!

Did those two car have stock or aftermarket computers? I have a Classic FAST and notice a tip in stumble now. E85 fuel system is on the way from Racetronix. Might try raise base FP now to see if it clears up. Thanks

 

[BIGONTS]

Here's an update if anyone cares. Been messing with the tune with Norbs' help, which is greatly appreciated We worked on start up, warm up and some low boost runs 5-10lbs initially. He has been great, all via email just logging things and making slight changes at a time.

One interesting thing I would like to point out is that my Classic FAST would not recognize the 1.1 injector timing required for 83lb injector, or 42lb injector value needed to be in the system to bring the VE's down in the table so they're not closer to 99, UNTIL I changed those parameters while the car was running and hitting Apply. For days it was maxing out the correcting to +25% in the VE's 90's at 10lbs. After doing that, all of a sudden I was 7-8% rich VE's in the mid 80's with room to go richer, but I need to go leaner. However, 10% correction seems to be acceptable.

Last night I got a chance to floor it for a few seconds at 20lbs of boost. Plan was to up it from 10lbs to 15lbs, but I could not keep it lower. It felt and looked good, so I stayed in it. Injectors seem to be maxed out however. Does that make sense to everyone? 83lb'er maxed out and 21lbs of boost with PT54 turbo? Also, need to drop the tank and check connections to hanger. It's seeping a bit now that I was able to turn it up and give the new pump and fuel system a work out. I was not sure how tight the AN fittings need to be with the Racetronix fuel system. LMK what you guys think and any input. I'll try to post up some logs

 

[turbojoe1]

Good reading, keep it up


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