Front Suspension/ Del-a-Lum/ Tubular Control arm/ B-body spindle ?s

[GinoRin]

Hey again everyone, WOW do I have some questions!!! My 2 year GN project is now to the point where I need to do something with the front suspension before I place the engine back in and install the front clip. I have a 52k mile GN that was very very tight suspension wise, but I would like to improve things a litte more while I have everything apart. I had the tub of the car plastic media blasted (including the firewall) and now the plastic media has gotten into all the bushings, so I would just assume rebuild the entire frontend. Anyways, heres my questions:

1. Who makes a nice front end rebuild kit with some stiffer than stock bushings that will help clean up the front suspension a little bit? I would like to hear some pros and cons of PST, energy suspension, ect.... I'm all ears!

2. I would also like to replace the nasty, ugly, stock upper control arms with some nice tubular pieces with del-a-lum busings, since those seem to be the hot ticket item now. Does anyone besides Global West make some nice tubular control arms? GW gets over $600 for theirs!!! I'll pay it if I have to, but it just seems somewhat overpriced to me.

3. I was planning on going to B-body front spindles at a later date in order to put 1LE brakes on the car, however I also wanted to lower the car about two inches ( I want this thing to handle) and the car will be getting some nice 17 or 18" wheels to accompany the upgraded suspension. Will the Global west upper control arms work with 1LE brakes and B-body lowering spindles? If I wanted to do this at a later date, will the upper control arms work with the stock spindles for now?

4. Is there a better alternative to 1LE brakes? I know the conversion kit from Global west is about $1000.... Is there any aftermarket systems out there for abotu the same price that will have comprable or better stopping power?

My point in all this madness is to try and reduce the amount of work I have to do to get thins thing back on the road by june. However, since the engine and front clip arent on the frame right now, it seems now is the time to do all the suspension and brake work, since I am also painting the frame right now too. If I am crazy in doing all this at once, or it isn't oo much of a bear to do at a later time, please let me know! All of your insight is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[GN ERGY]

A guy named Robert Adams sells some UCAs. I'm in the process of going 12 discs and getting all the parts together. I just picked up spindles from the bone yard for $70. Came with rotors and the calipers so I can use them on exchange for rebuilt ones. I think I'm going with Globals control arms with the brass bushings for the turbo side and the del a lums in the other. Napa has 1LE drilled rotors for $73. each.
I don't know if you can change control arms now and spindles later, maybe someone else will answer that question for you. I'd buy the control arms from whoever and get the rest of the parts on your own. Any bone yard will help you get spindles, or if you are getting lowered ones from an aftermarket supplier. I have also learned that if you go with the 12in. discs you should go with S 10 rear wheel cyls. to balance out the stopping power.
Tarey D.

 

[Matt Weiser]

I have all the Global West suspension stuff on my car and I'm glad I spent the money. If you really want your car to handle, I believe it's the best way to go. I admit, it was hard to spend that much money, but you'll be glad in the long run, especially with all the work you're doing on your car. GW seems to have a sale each year around Xmas time, so if you can wait you might save $100-200 on everything.

I think this is the right time for you to do this work, with everything else apart. It'll make the whole job SO much easier to do it all at once.

1. Go with the Global West Del-a-Lum bushings. Most people are unhappy with poly bushings because they squeek and bind, and stock rubber just doesn't cut it for a handling car. Plus, since you're concerned about looks, you can't beat the Del-a-Lums. They're a trick anodized blue bushing that looks nice when you're laying on your back under the car covered in grime.

2. Again, I recommend the GW control arms. Just much beefier and better made than the Hotchkis stuff, IMO. Another option is available from Robert Adams: http://gparts.freeyellow.com/. But it's my understanding that these arms us a different ball joint that can be difficult to source and install when it's replacement time.

3. Most people avoid drop spindles because they tend to create problems with the car bottoming out. You can lower the car 2" effectively just by using shorter springs. The GW control arms are INTENDED to work with 1LE style brakes, but not with drop spindles. Also, I don't think you'll be happy trying to match GW arms up with stock spindles. It MIGHT work, but could result in all kinds of alignment problems. As long as you're replacing control arms and bushings, go ahead and go for the 12" 1LE brake upgrade while you're getting dirty.

4. The best deal I could find on a 12" brake upgrade was the Robert Adams kit (http://gparts.freeyellow.com/) for $470. I was real pleased with the kit. It came fully assembled and ready to bolt on, and everything has worked great for me (but that price does not include master cylinder or booster). Only problem is, Robert puts these kits together as a side business and it may take him a long time to deliver. But he was good to work with. As you'll see, you can also order the right kind of tubular upper control arms from Robert, together with the brakes, at a package price of $720. You can't beat that price with a stick. But again, I prefer the GW arms.

 

[GNVAIR]

I have the Global West uca's along with all the Del A lum bushings and b body spindles on my car. Definitely worth every penny!!
Youy can get less expensive uca's from UB Machine for like $49.95@. I pieced my suspension together. Because mine had 130k on it at the time, I replaced everything with pieces from Moog. I like to stay with name brand suspension parts.
Upsides to the swap were the increased grip (60 mph highway on ramps are very fun! )
I can also make the first turn off at Atco Raceway with the 12" brakes.
Downsides were the increase in bump steer.........which is livable. Other downsides were the fact that my car probably could have used offset uca shafts.
Try it!

 

[Matt Weiser]

Just to follow up on a couple things:

--My GW upper arms CAME WITH the offset cross-shafts, and I needed them to get the alignment settings I wanted.

--GN ERGY is right, you want to go with the larger S10 wheel cylinders in back so the braking is balanced. This may eliminate the need for an adjustable proportioning valve (I didn't need one, but then my car is a wagon, heavier in the rear). Also, choose your new master cylinder and booster carefully. I think what I bought was a new master and booster for an '87 Caprice, but the GW site has all the details on this.

--I wouldn't recommend using drilled rotors unless you get them cryogenically treated. Otherwise they are prone to cracking and the loss of material from the drilling actually may reduce braking performance (less heat absorbing material=bad). But the cryo treatment (deep freezing) stabilizes the metal and prevents cracking.

--You can save a lot of money by going with junkyard parts, but I liked the Robert Adams kit option because it saved a lot of searching for the right parts, and everything came either new or rebuilt, freshly cleaned, preassembled and ready to bolt on. It was worth it to me to spend a bit more for that.

 

[GinoRin]

Excellent info, thanks guys! I think I am going to go with the Global west offset upper control arms with the lower del a lum bushings, as well as the 12" brakes right away, even though its not in the budget right now. I am going to call Baer brakes and see if they make a B-body kit, that would be cool! That way I can get the nice rotors and snazzy calipers from them. If not , I will definately look into the other brake kit as I don't have time to go rummaging around in junkyards to find parts right now.

Thanks again!

 

[GinoRin]

Just out of curiousity, can I still use my powermaster with the 1LE brake upgrade, or do I need to convert to a vacuum system? I have a NOS powermaster just laying around I was going to use. Personally, I don't care for the look of vacuum brakes in the engine compartment.

Thanks

 

[petesgn]

You can use the powermaster, I did on mine.

 

[Mark E.]

Make sure to get the brass bushing for the pass side uca so you don't have to keep changing that burned up bushing. Junkyard spindles, new rotors and rebuilt loaded calipers are the way to go. Thats what I did and I am very happy with the handling. Good Luck,

 

[UNGN]

If you are going with 17" or 18" wheels anyway, think seriously about the 13" C5 brake upgrade. It's a little more work and fabrication (not too much more), but for visual impact it can't be beat and it's still much cheaper than buying it from BAER (which you can do too, I guess)