Front Suspension Geometry(Lowered T)

[GNJIM2]

Hi
My front suspension (87-T) has had problems ever since I installed the Performace Suspension Components front end kit with heavy duty sway bars and Eibach springs (1") drop. My problems are as follows.
1. My drivers side a-arm has excessive shimming +/- 1 " of shims (toward firewall.) My pass side has one or two shims.(Normal)
2. My sway bar hits my tires..lock to lock, and is pressed up against my idler arm.
3. Most important problem is that my inner tie rod ends are digging into the crossmember of my frame.
4. The car drives fine, tracks ok, and has never been wrecked, but it seems to have excessive bump steer.
5. Could I have bent the a-arms putting in bushings and balljoints??(sledge method)
Any help with these problems would be appreciated. This problem has been with me 1 year now and I would really like to fix it with the lowered ride height. I have an 87GN with stock suspension and when I compare the two, it seems as though the tie-rods have moved inward aprox 1". I have contacted PSC who gave me the number to Hellwig products, their manufacturer who suggested "shimming"the sway bar but cannot help me with the tie-rod ends.
I am willing to do anything but raise the car to the standard height.....I have seen many lowered regals who did not have this problem
I have "copious"amonts of pictures and will e-mail to anyone willing to help
Thanks
Jim

 

[Matt Weiser]

Jim,

First of all, give us a little more info:

--Do you have stock upper A-arms?
--Do you have stock spindles and brakes?
--Do you have the stock steering box?
--Describe the "PSC front end kit". What was in the kit exactly?
--Just how big are your swaybars and are they G-body bars?
--How big are your tires/wheels?
--Have you altered the steering box or Pitman arm at all?
--What are alignment specs after the install?

Pending more info, I have a couple thoughts:

1. A difference in alignment shim pack width from side-to-side isn't a big deal as long as you can still see threads on the bolts where the shims fit and you can get the car to align within spec. It's not uncommon to have the number of shims be quite different from one side to the other.
2. It's possible that you installed your swabar "upside down." It's only meant to attach one way, and interference could result if it's upside down. This could also explain why it's hitting your idler arm. That's a big problem.
3. Inner tie rod contact is bad. Could it be that you installed them on the wrong side of the centerlink, or that you installed the centerlink backwards? Could you have gotten the wrong parts in your kit?
4. You shouldn't have bump steer after dropping the car only 1". That usually only occurs when upgrading to B-body spindles and 12" brakes, and even then isn't severe (but it could be related to your other problems).
5. I doubt you could have bent the A-arms enough during the install to cause these problems.

The car sounds dangerous to drive right now, so I wouldn't drive it until you get this resolved. If you want, email me a photo that shows the steering linkage to maweiser@yahoo.com (low-res please).

 

[GNJIM2]

Thankyou for four prompt response to my problem and your concern for my safety, as I am concerned too. What puzzles me is there is a plethora of Turbo-6 owners/enthusiasts as well as shops....(in Humble, TX!)...who do not have a clue and tell me to put the suspension back to original height.
I have had the frame checked and it is not bent
--Do you have stock upper A-arms?
Yes
--Do you have stock spindles and brakes?
Yes
--Do you have the stock steering box?
Yes
--Describe the "PSC front end kit". What was in the kit exactly?
Graphite impregnated polyurethane bushings(All), ball joints(All), outer tie-rod ends, sway bars font and rear, endlinks.
I got the outer tie rods, sleeves and centerlink from my local auto parts and I had not problem with the install on my other car
(87 GN rebuild front end, not lowered)
--Just how big are your swaybars and are they G-body bars?
1-5/16" Front
1" in the Rear, yes they fit the G-Body cars. The owner of Hellwig...the manufacturer devoloped this kit for his own turbo regal.
--How big are your tires/wheels?
225/60/15 front
255/50/15 Rear
Stock Turbo T wheels (15")
--Have you altered the steering box or Pitman arm at all?
Never touched either one
--What are alignment specs after the install?
I have checked and I only have the receipt, I will go to the shop and retreive them if it helps. I do remember putting the thing together and it was traveling EVERYWHERE on the road, I swirved into oncoming traffic....so I had to tow it to the alignment shop...(tow truck). I did install the centerlink backwards(I was tired)..alignment shop was upset...;car does drive absolutely strait after alignment.
Question #2 in your reply
With reference to the swaybar, I do remember the endlinks from the kit not being the proper height to install them...i.e.: they were not long enough, so I bought a set of energy suspension endlinks that were a little longer so the end links could be installed.
How would I definately tell my swaybar was upside down???
The maufacturer wants me to "shim" the bar down from idler arm but I have measured at least 1.25" of shim will be needed to accomplish this.
Question #3 in your reply
I have the other vehicle(87GN) with stock height suspension that I rebuilt that I used to compare the centerlink, and it is an identical match.
I do not have a low res image and I assume you are on 56K
so I will refrain from that unless it is ok I send you one or two. I have taken many pics of my problem for the manufacturer..Hellwig...but they were no help. I can cut sections of the pics out if that would help (I dont want to clog your inbox)
Let me know about the pics...
Thanks Again!!
Jim
JAnson@houston.rr.com

 

[Matt Weiser]

Oh, I didn't realize you had a GN to compare with. Well, that would be an easy way to tell if your swaybar is upside down. Just look at the GN and compare with the T. Or, check out the bottom photo on this page to see how an installed swaybar should look:

http://www.jeffd.50megs.com/bump_steer_mods_page.htm

This isn't my site, but don't look at the centerlink and steering parts for reference because these photos show a modified situation. It's also important to make sure the swaybar is "centered" relative to the frame. If the swaybar is offcenter, it might be more likely to contact the idler arm.

Another thing: How long are the swaybar endlinks compared to those on your GN, or the original ones you took off the T? The fact that the endlinks in the kit were wrong is suspicious. It could be they just *seemed* too short because the swaybar was upside down. If this isn't the case, then I'd start to wonder if other parts in the kit are wrong.

Did you replace the idler arm, too? It could be you ended up with an idler arm that's too long, which would shove the centerlink too close to the frame, causing the inner tie rods to hit. Try measuring that idler arm compared to the original one or the one on your GN.

It's also possible you got tie rods that are too big on the ball end, causing interference, but that seems far-fetched. Or maybe too long overall, but if that was the case, you wouldn't be able to align the car. Again, compare to the GN or what you took off the T. Also, which side of the centerlink are the inner tie rods mounted on as compared to your GN?