Fuel system plumbing & lines - WTF?!

[J Banning]

I'll be running a fuel cell in the trunk. The cell has two (2) -8 AN pickup fittings (to filter/pump) and two (2) -8 AN return & vent fittings.

I'll be running -10 AN line to the rail, and -6 AN from the rail to the factory feed line.

Questions:
1) How do I go from the -8 on the cell to the -12 AN inlet to my fuel filter???

2) What fittings do I need to go to/from the fuel rail?

3) How much fuel line do I need for each run (cell to fuel rail, rail to factory fuel fitting on frame rail)???


Any info, pictures, etc. would be much appreciated. Please post here, or email me at: Banning@BanningCohen.com

Note: I am NOT looking to go broke doing this.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Originally posted by J Banning
I'll be running a fuel cell in the trunk. The cell has two (2) -8 AN pickup fittings (to filter/pump) and two (2) -8 AN return & vent fittings.
** A cell in the trunk means you have to add a steel or alum firewall behind the rear seat. If the cell projects below the trunk floor, then it has to have the exposed surfaces covered w/ steel or alum sheeting. The vent has to have a "rollover" check in it, and it has to discharge below the trunk floor.

I'll be running -10 AN line to the rail, and -6 AN from the rail to the factory feed line.
** WTF is that about??

Questions:
1) How do I go from the -8 on the cell to the -12 AN inlet to my fuel filter???
** You don't. You either make up a manifold with inlets for 2 -8's and an outlet of 1 -12, or you cap off 1 -8 at the sump, and then redrill the other -8 hole in the sump to take a -12 cell fitting.

2) What fittings do I need to go to/from the fuel rail?
**The fuel rail will have to be cut off, and a -6 AN welded into it.

3) How much fuel line do I need for each run (cell to fuel rail, rail to factory fuel fitting on frame rail)???
** That's what a tape measure is for!!

Any info, pictures, etc. would be much appreciated. Please post here, or email me at: Banning@BanningCohen.com

Note: I am NOT looking to go broke doing this.

** It's NOT CHEAP!!
How about the FPR?? You have to plumb it in too.. It goes on the outlet side of the rail so it regulates the fuel psi AFTER the injectors... like a stocker does....

Fun costs money!!!

 

[zam70]

Last car I custom plumbed front to back (fuel cell, pump, filter, regulator, AN fittings and aluminum hard line & braided on all) I had close to a $1000.00 in the whole setup...it isn't cheap...no 2 ways about it.

 

[J Banning]

Ok, I realize that.

How about some answers to my questions?

 

[Rickracer]

The cheapest way to plumb is with hardlines

Last 2 tubbed cars I did both had 1/2 aluminum lines from tank to regulator. It's like $20 a 25'roll (less than a buck a foot), Vs. $5+ per foot for braided stainless hose. You'll still need some hose and fittings, but you can hold the cost down a bunch using hardline for the long runs, and stainless braided for the expansion/flex joints. cost was less than a grand for two complete systems on each car, one for the carb, and one for the nitrous, ( the nitrous was 3/8"). Just an idea...

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Originally posted by J Banning
Ok, I realize that.

How about some answers to my questions?

You got some!!

 

[azgn]

to answer your specific questions....any speedshop worth its salt can set you up with all the necessary hardware except stuff like modifying the rail (talk to Chuck).....you might want to look at the "new" push on stuff also...NHRA legal

as pointed out several times before, this will get expensive and unless you are building a 9 sec car, you are wasting your $$$$$

 

[J Banning]

Thank you Chuck, Rick, and Woody.

Anyone else, please chime in. I appreciate the comments. I'm hoping to start piecing this together in the next day or two.

-Banning.

 

[KendallF]

The aluminum hard line with tube nuts is not really a good idea for a high pressure EFI car, IMO. It's just really thin and easily damaged.

If you have someone who can weld aluminum nicely, you can make up your own Y blocks and other fittings to go from the dual outlet cell to your -12, for example. To save some money you could use the pushlock stuff for the cell to filter and filter to pump connections also; keep the runs short.

Something sort of offbeat that we're going to do on my car shortly is to use 1" aluminum tubing with bulkhead fittings welded to it for the majority of the run under the car. It bends nicely with a conduit bender and is lighter and cheaper than braided hose. I am using the sort of tubing you can buy at Ace Hardware or Home Depot; I paid $6 each for 10 foot sections at a military surplus store in Orlando.

If you have plenty of time to collect parts, keep an eye out on Ebay for used line and fittings or call Muscle Motorsports (www.musclemotorsports.com). If you order from Muscle, use the online order form as that's the only way they've ever gotten my order even close to correct despite many, many phone calls.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Here are some summit part numbers

AER-FCM2954 -10 AN male O-ring boss to -12 AN male f... $12.39
AEI-15610 Fitting -10AN/-8AN Cutoff Tapered Flare ... $16.99

It looks like you are going to have to go adaptor to adaptor if you stick with the -12 filter.

 

[Vsix]

Banning i have the fuel rail (modded) and the -8an line already if your interested

Thanks Jim
215-669-1696

 

[JCotton]

Banning,

Questions:
1) How do I go from the -8 on the cell to the -12 AN inlet to my fuel filter???

2) What fittings do I need to go to/from the fuel rail?

3) How much fuel line do I need for each run (cell to fuel rail, rail to factory fuel fitting on frame rail)???


First, what cell do you have? Is it plastic or aluminum, if plastic, you can remove one of the #8 feed fitting and replace with a #12 bulkhead fitting, that will take care of that. Use the other #8 for a drain, either cap it or run a short #8 line with a cap on the end of it.

for the rail, either weld a #10 bung on the end or find a fitting with an o-ring to screw in, I weld the bungs on them. For the return, same deal, weld a #6 or 8 on the bottom of the regulator or find an o-ringed fitting to screw in, I weld them on.

20 ft long for the feed, 5ft. piece for the return...........

if you need any help or questions, give me a call this morning at the shop. Sorry about the pics, have just been burried at the shop, I'll try to look this morning for some pics, just takes me forever to find them and figure out how to send em...

 

[BEATAV8]

Hi Banning,
Aeroquip has industrial hose outlets/distributors where you can get help selecting fittings and purchase them "over the counter" just like a auto parts store. Often these stores are called "Aeroquip Express". If you want to save some $$ you can use brass fittings instead of the fancy anodized aluminum. Could be a possible issue with corrosion mixing brass and aluminum fittings. Not sure.

Check here to see if there is an outlet in your area:

www.aeroquip.com

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Brass fittings???

Hmmmn.. I think the brass fitting are most likely gas/plumbing fittings, and as such are not 37* fittings, [AN]. They are 45*, and as such will not seal properly w/ 37* AN stuff.....

 

[BEATAV8]

Chuck raises a good point, you would have to be sure the flare angles are correct if ordering over the counter.

The adapter fittings are available in just about any combination.

37* flare adapters are readily available in brass for low pressure or zinc plated 12L14 steel for high pressure hydraulics. 37* flare is very common in fluid power systems.

45* flare adapters are available is brass or steel, but more readily in brass. These are commonly used in refirgeration and automotive/truck piping systems.

The steel fittings are overkill but they are great, much more forgiving than the aluminum stuff.

My experience is that the anodized aluminum automotive performance stuff is way overpriced. Probably because they think the customer base will pay anything for fancy red and blue aluminum fittings.

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

fuel line

Summit sells 20' lenghts of aeroquip line you will need 20' of -6 for the return and about 25-30 ' of -8.

-6 AER-FCA0620 20ft ea $87.95
-8 AER-FCA0820 20ft ea $105.95

Hey Jim,
On mine I ran -10 from the sump to the filter then -8 to the Y and to my rails then -8 to the regulator then -6 back to the tank.

Good luck,
Steve

Btw be sure to do the long runs first and if your putting your cell in the trunk I've seen the pump mounted on the rear bumper backing.

 

[J Banning]

Question: What's the traditional way to run the vent from the cell?

Should I go back into the factory hard line, or just put a bulkhead fitting in the trunk floor and vent to atmosphere? If so, won't that cause problems come emissions testing time?

 

[chevyII]

Id change the fitting in the cell to a -12 or -10. Would it be bad to run a cell with the pickup on top/no sump?

 

[J Banning]

Originally posted by chevyII
Id change the fitting in the cell to a -12 or -10. Would it be bad to run a cell with the pickup on top/no sump?

I'm sure it could be done, but you are looking at fabrication time for modifying the cell for the new fittings and making up a pickup... not to mention that it would kinda defeat the purpose of having your fuel pickup at the bottom, in the sump, of the cell.