Help me build a long block.

[ShawnR]

I am getting ready for my build, and want opinions. I don't plan on racing (much), but I have had the car 29 years and it is time to give it some love and attention. I'm old, but I still enjoy decent acceleration & the occasional burnouts.

I am fortunate enough to have a complete 90k mile "109" engine and also have a 4.1 (unknown mileage). I have not pulled with of them apart yet to check for cracks or anything at all, I am going to assume they are both completely stock & original (for now).

Which block would be the preferred first choice?

I have a self imposed max budget of $4000 for the long block, and want to get the best "bang for the buck" that I can for that amount of $$. Machine shop work has to be included in that amount. Line boring after caps, etc...

I do have a 212/212 roller camshaft purchased here from a member, so I'll need lifters, pushrods & rockers.

So, if you have a good block, stock crank & stock heads, how would you build it?
(The $4000 doesn't have to ALL be spent!)

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

Build is in my sig. Went 7.15 at 100 off the trailer this morning during dial ins for bracket racing.

 

[ShawnR]

Build is in my sig. Went 7.15 at 100 off the trailer this morning during dial ins for bracket racing.

What's the cost to get a set of stock heads done up like that? Compared to a set of Champion irons?

Am I right in assuming that the 3.8 & 4.1 have the same heads? If not, which is preferred?

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

I'm up here in Canada. Easiest for you is to grab a pair of Champions. Your torque convertor choice is all important. If you go with a lockup...make sure it can be locked at WOT.

 

[dank GN]

A great article on a 4.1 build for cheap
http://www.turbobuicks.com/articles/4point1ForCheap/

 

[Nigel]

The standard question is how much HP do you want to make?
If my goals were modest, my first action would be a full inspection of the 109 long block. Knowing the history of it would be good, but if needed pick an experienced buick guy to do an inspection. Bearing wear, cap fretting, wrist pin condition .... Things like that can help tell if it was abused. Heavy abuse will expend cyclic life of the parts, if it was not abused the stock 109 block parts will still have a lot of life. A solid rebuild of the 109 long block(stock crank and rods), with a good valve job, springs, and pocket port may meet your goals. The right turbo/converter combo, and this would be a strong street car. Everything else also has to be good with a solid tune. I don't know much about the 4.1, but the stock 3.8 8445 heads are good for decent power when ported. You can search the board for engine builders and also specific builds. I'm still running the factory short block minus the stock cam, 108K miles.

 

[dynoman]

If you plan to bump up the power , save money for a transmission rebuild & upgrade while the motor is out . Nothing worse than getting a fresh motor in and then having the transmission start flaring during a shift because of the extra power . $4000 won't go real far with a motor AND transmission up grades if your not doing a lot of the work yourself . Good luck & keep us posted . Sam

 

[ScottyG]

I would keep stock engine just do the comp cams 980-12s valve springs and new intake valve seals. So engine is done inless u have a rear main seal leak!

Buy a decent turbo that's good for high boost.
upgrade ur fuel system and get 80lb injectors
translator and maf combo.
Good convertor
turn the boost up to about 26-30lbs either pure E-85 or 93 & alky mix should be good around 400rwhp If not a little more

 

[ShawnR]

The standard question is how much HP do you want to make?.

I have a 450hp number in mind, not for any real reason, but it should provide plenty of fun and shouldn't be terribly expensive to get there.

Trans just had a fresh rebuild with updates last summer, & if I do blow it, I have a BRF in the corner of the barn ready to get built. I have a trans swap down to a couple of hours.

I will be running a custom intake, have 60lb injectors and a Precision TA60 turbo to go on top. As of now, I am leaning towards Megasquirt to run everything, but open to suggestions.

Goal is build over the winter and install in the spring. Lead time on parts and machine shop time can can take a while.

 

[Nigel]

I have a 450hp number in mind, not for any real reason, but it should provide plenty of fun and shouldn't be terribly expensive to get there.

Trans just had a fresh rebuild with updates last summer, & if I do blow it, I have a BRF in the corner of the barn ready to get built. I have a trans swap down to a couple of hours.

I will be running a custom intake, have 60lb injectors and a Precision TA60 turbo to go on top. As of not, I am leaning towards Megasquirt to run everything, but open to suggestions.

Goal is build over the winter and install in the spring. Lead time on parts and machine shop time can can take a while.

I would take a hard look at the 109, if it is in good shape you could use it as is. Or just a cylinder hone with new bearings and rings. Is it going to be intercooled, if not then things get tougher? Cam may be a little big for your application. My recommendation would be to talk to Bison for a cam, converter, head combo to match your TA60. I am assuming you are going to use alky injection, E-85, or race gas?

 

[dynoman]

Brian Lorenz is only 2 hrs away in West Salem Ohio . He can point you in the right direction and he has a dyno to help get it dialed in .
https://www.facebook.com/Lorenz-Racing-Performance-987837671254803/

 

[ShawnR]

I would take a hard look at the 109, if it is in good shape you could use it as is. Or just a cylinder hone with new bearings and rings. Is it going to be intercooled, if not then things get tougher? Cam may be a little big for your application. My recommendation would be to talk to Bison for a cam, converter, head combo to match your TA60. I am assuming you are going to use alky injection, E-85, or race gas?

I will be running both intercooler and alky. Not sure what all needs to be done to be able to run E85, but it is available locally.

 

[Nigel]

Nothing wrong with alky, I like it. Everybody raves about E85 though. Maybe one day in my future.

 

[ITSAV6]

If it checks good I would resize the rods and use ARP rod bolts and main cap bolts, nice set of rings and ported heads.

 

[ShawnR]

If it checks good I would resize the rods and use ARP rod bolts and main cap bolts, nice set of rings and ported heads.

School me briefly on what exactly "resizing the rods" means. I guess I thought the rods were all the same size and the only variable was the bearing thickness.

 

[turbo89]

I have a 450hp number in mind, not for any real reason, but it should provide plenty of fun and shouldn't be terribly expensive to get there.

Trans just had a fresh rebuild with updates last summer, & if I do blow it, I have a BRF in the corner of the barn ready to get built. I have a trans swap down to a couple of hours.

I will be running a custom intake, have 60lb injectors and a Precision TA60 turbo to go on top. As of not, I am leaning towards Megasquirt to run everything, but open to suggestions.

Goal is build over the winter and install in the spring. Lead time on parts and machine shop time can can take a while.

Woah.. for 450 hp.. dont do half that shit

The buicks can do 450 all day everyday with basic bolt ons. Slow your roll .. parts dont make em go fast!!

 

[turbo89]

I will be running both intercooler and alky. Not sure what all needs to be done to be able to run E85, but it is available locally.

You can make 450 all day on a stock shortblock on E85!!

 

[turbo89]

I will be running both intercooler and alky. Not sure what all needs to be done to be able to run E85, but it is available locally.

E85 is the shiznitz if you can get it locally.. if you need more info PM me.. E85 tech section has alot of good info too

 

[dank GN]

I made 580 to the tire with a stock crank stock rod motor on e85 . It took a lot of fuel . 80lb injectors maxed out with a single 450 walbro bigger fuel lines and a 71 hpq .

 

[turbo89]

I made 580 to the tire with a stock crank stock rod motor on e85 . It took a lot of fuel . 80lb injectors maxed out with a single 450 walbro bigger fuel lines and a 71 hpq .

And he only wants 450 .. so goes to show what can be done