High Volume Oil Pump

[bluezone]

I will like to know what is the pros & cons of the HV Oil pump

 

[Red Regal T]

Why do you think you need one?

 

[bluezone]

Just wondering what is the benefit of running one

 

[Red Regal T]

Some will say no benefit. I've used them and liked them, never caused me a problem, but I don't have a low 10 second car. Maybe if I did, I'd have another opinion, but for a car into the 11s, no downside from my point of view. The benefit is increased oil pressure.

 

[SS/GN]

Do your homework,they are not needed.Many fast cars with stock or Earl Brown moded front cover.:wink:Type and weight of oil has more of an impact.Remember you only need 10 lbs of pressure for every 1000 rpms;s and these are 5300 RPM motors

Kevin

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Stock oil pumps have gone 8's. The longer gears put more strain on the cam sensor. Not needed.

 

[mikestertwo]

If the clearances ar right, a high volume pump is not needed. Just puts a lot of stress on the cam gear especially when the motor is cold.

 

[Just a Six??]

If the clearances ar right, a high volume pump is not needed. Just puts a lot of stress on the cam gear especially when the motor is cold.

Agreed!

 

[Red Regal T]

I tried to find out why this guy asks about a high volume pump. Actually, I knew what the consensus would be from all the "experts". Let's see, if everybody does their homework, they're not needed, and Many fast cars use an Earl Brown modded cover. What about cars with 150-200K miles that runs great but idles around 5psi? Should he suddenly rip his engine out, or suffer with 40 lbs of oil pressure at WOT? People like to talk about stock oil pumps that have gone 8s, but they forget to mention the thousands of dollars of modifications that make it happen, and maybe not that the oil pump is modified. And then there's a bunch of people who just agree. Everybody ... no scratch that ... most people here aren't interested in pulling out their motor because maybe it has some miles on it and the oil pressure sucks. Depending how you use the car, maybe it can't be saved. Maybe that rebuild can't be put off, but hey, I'd just switch out my main and rod bearings, but plenty of guys don't know how to, and it's cheaper and not as complicated to have a HV pump installed than have some mechanic whine about how difficult and costly it is to switch bearings. So, for you ace mechanics, or people with too much money, go ahead and make the mods you want to make your engine perfect so you can shoot the breeze with the track dogs. Nothing wrong with that, but for you guys who can't change your oil or aren't interested to, or are certainly not interested in pulling your motor or replacing your bearings, HV oil pumps work. They are not a bad thing, but you'd never hear that from the "experts". Every TR isn't a race car. If your oil pressure is $hit, a HV pump will most probably lengthen the life of your motor if that's what you're looking to do, and perhaps you'll never have to bring it to your friendly machine shop so he can @#%&! you up the &^%$.

 

[SS/GN]

I tried to find out why this guy asks about a high volume pump. Actually, I knew what the consensus would be from all the "experts". Let's see, if everybody does their homework, they're not needed, and Many fast cars use an Earl Brown modded cover. What about cars with 150-200K miles that runs great but idles around 5psi? Should he suddenly rip his engine out, or suffer with 40 lbs of oil pressure at WOT? People like to talk about stock oil pumps that have gone 8s, but they forget to mention the thousands of dollars of modifications that make it happen, and maybe not that the oil pump is modified. And then there's a bunch of people who just agree. Everybody ... no scratch that ... most people here aren't interested in pulling out their motor because maybe it has some miles on it and the oil pressure sucks. Depending how you use the car, maybe it can't be saved. Maybe that rebuild can't be put off, but hey, I'd just switch out my main and rod bearings, but plenty of guys don't know how to, and it's cheaper and not as complicated to have a HV pump installed than have some mechanic whine about how difficult and costly it is to switch bearings. So, for you ace mechanics, or people with too much money, go ahead and make the mods you want to make your engine perfect so you can shoot the breeze with the track dogs. Nothing wrong with that, but for you guys who can't change your oil or aren't interested to, or are certainly not interested in pulling your motor or replacing your bearings, HV oil pumps work. They are not a bad thing, but you'd never hear that from the "experts". Every TR isn't a race car. If your oil pressure is $hit, a HV pump will most probably lengthen the life of your motor if that's what you're looking to do, and perhaps you'll never have to bring it to your friendly machine shop so he can @#%&! you up the &^%$.

You have some good points but I will disagree.An oil pump will not fix a worn out motor period.Look at new cars oil pressures over the years have been reduced,for many reasons.High oil pressure does nothing for a motor but consume power and put strain on certain parts like pump gears and dist gears.High pressure will actually hurt engine life as the oil goes past the bearing too fast and does not take the heat away.GM spent millions of dollars designing these cars so we can just increase things for no reason.I am by know means an expert but this is a no brainer.:biggrin:

Kevin

 

[forcefed3.8's]

I ran for 3 years with a 140,xxx mile engine that only made 30psi at the most, and at idle, it barely moved the gauge. The problem was a clogged pick up screen. A high volume pump wouldn't do much for that. I tore down the engine and the bearings looked fine. Also, this car was raced every week. I guess it was a "race car". I have put together alot of cars running deep in the 10's with stock short blocks and properly clearanced stock pumps with no other mods, no 1,000's of dollars spent. I think this is good enough for most street cars, but I am no "expert".

 

[Red Regal T]

You have some good points but I will disagree.An oil pump will not fix a worn out motor period.Look at new cars oil pressures over the years have been reduced,for many reasons.High oil pressure does nothing for a motor but consume power and put strain on certain parts like pump gears and dist gears.High pressure will actually hurt engine life as the oil goes past the bearing too fast and does not take the heat away.GM spent millions of dollars designing these cars so we can just increase things for no reason.I am by know means an expert but this is a no brainer.:biggrin:

Kevin

I didn't say it would fix a worn-out motor, but it will provide more oil/oil pressure to worn areas and make it last longer. New cars have lower pressure? That may be true, I don't know, but I'm not suggesting a HV pump so you can have 90 psi. I'm suggesting they be used to have 25 at hot idle, 50 at cruise, and 65 at WOT or something approaching satisfactory pressures. Everybody doesn't want to rebuild their motor. If they can get away with a cheap, intermediate, fix, they will. You people that want to run around with 0 on your oil pressure gauge and tell me it's OK, really are searching for an argument. The fella above had low oil pressure for quite some time, but finally, after a 140K miles found his pickup was clogged? Sure, give me advice. There's race cars, and there's everyday drivers, and there's cars people drive on weekends. So, if I had a race car, I'd opt for all the best things. The other uses, depending on my pocket book and my needs. If I can't work on the car myself I have to subject to all these idiots out there, pretending to mechanics or machinists, who shouldn't be allowed to hold a wrench.

 

[87GN_70GS]

HV gears will also wear the front cam bearing alot more.

Get the pump booster plate, Melling P20I.

 

[Red Regal T]

A lot more? Tell it to the guys who use them, and have a couple hundred thousand miles on their engines. What you're saying may be true, but to what disadvantage? It all depends what your needs are, whether or not to use a HV pump. Only a small percentage of owners here are serious racers. It's all relative to the specific car, and how the owner uses his car.

 

[Just a Six??]

The Biggest Problem is Many Aftermarket covers have Alingnment issues with the Cam sensor. Sometimes they wont line up properly, sometimes they wont even drop in at all! The Earl Brown mods to a stocker with a clean pickup tube will bring up enuf pressure that if that it doesn't work, then you need internal work done. Nothing fixes that!

 

[SS/GN]

The Biggest Problem is Many Aftermarket covers have Alingnment issues with the Cam sensor. Sometimes they wont line up properly, sometimes they wont even drop in at all! The Earl Brown mods to a stocker with a clean pickup tube will bring up enuf pressure that if that it doesn't work, then you need internal work done. Nothing fixes that!

Could not have said it better.My point is if a 9 sec street car doesn;t need it why would a near stock daily driver need it.That is my observationI look at people who are faster and punish their stuff more than myself and have more experience than myself and consider their opinion when doing my homework

Kevin

 

[BlackBandit]

It depends on where you are at with your engine. If I had a dollar for every idiot that runs 20W50 or 10w40 with a stock pump and raves about their great oil pressure I'd have a TON of cash. The fact is most "experts" don't know the hole their poop comes out of from a hole in the ground. Run the least amount of oil weight AND pump you can to get the right pressure. If you have low pressure on a motor you'd be WAY" better off running a HV pump and 10w-30 than moving to 10w-40 or 20w-50 and staying with the stock pump. If you have an engine that has good pressure with a stock pump then it's pointless to go to a HV pump. I built my engine to flow oil. I get a little more than 10 psi per 1000 rpm running 5w-20 (or 0w-20 it doesn't make a difference because they both have the same viscosity at temp) oil. I have wide bearing clearances but I run a high volume pump. I also did some oil mods including the "earl brown" mods. Point is what you should do depends on where you're at. Understanding what a hv pump does other than "put too much load on the front cam bearing" before you make a decision is important. Do some research on volume of flow vs. pressure. Understand how that works and you'll know what to do.

If you want a simplistic breakdown here it is. If you run a HV pump and you don't need it you'll put additional wear on the front cam bearing. If you run one with the right clearances/oil weight you can have good pressure with additional volume which will result in better bearing cooling and you'll be less likely to spin a bearing.

HTH. james

 

[bluezone]

Thanks alot everyone for the advice on the HV Pump... I jus finish a bottom end rebuilt on my GN & it runs so smooth... My stock oil pump siezed up so I upgraded to the HV...

 

[Blazer406]

I'll put a spin on this.

Oil pressure is created when there is a resistance... i.e. bearing clearances are the resistance....... so for a given clearance...... 40 psi oil pressure will directly equate to a particular volume of oil being output from the pump....... regardless of if you are running a HV oil pump or not. If the standard volume pump can "keep up" it would take the same "volume output" as the high volume oil pump to generate the same pressure.

I'll argue.... a high volume pump doesn't appreciably increase the strain on the cam chain and cam sensor when clearances are right......cause the volume pumped at a particular pressure is the same as the std. volume pump. When clearances get big..... and the std. volume pump can't keep up...... that is when the high volume is still deliveing good oil pressure.... at the expense of more strain on the cam chain and cam sensor.

At some point.... you might "need" to worry about your HV pump pumping all the oil out of the pan and it being in the top of the engine instead of in the pan.... anotherwords the pump is outrunning the ability to drain oil back into the pan. This typically is only an issue at real high RPM's though.

 

[Jerryl]

Well there is some good input in this thread.
I have run a HV pump for +10K miles, and saw no negative effects on the front cam bearing or cam/cam sensor gears.

Do you need a HV pump? It depends on YOUR set-up and goals. A blanket statement of “you don’t need it” is therefore not accurate either.
IMHO, the cam bearing strain theory is good, but (as stated by Blazer), the “work done/energy requirement” is based on resistance to flow (pressure @ XX volume).

The amount of strain added to the cam bearing depends on resistance/work done. At high RPM, the bypass takes care of the potential added strain.

The problems with excessive and premature gear wear (the ones you hear about) is more related to oiling and gear alignment than the added load of the HV pump. (Think about it)

Like Blazer, Red Regal and Black Bandit stated, you have to look at the specific circumstances and application. If you don’t need it, don’t put it in, but it can save the day.

(I typed this and thought about "not beating a dead horse” . . . . . . . . but here it is )