HOW DID WE GET ALONG WITHOUT THE dbb,gt,gtq,ect,ect,ect.

M

mcponch

MENBER SINCE 2OOI
Joined
Oct 20, 2001
:cool IREMEMBER WHEN THE GT,GTQ TURBOS FIRST CAME OUT. WELL I HAD AN SOPOSEDLY OLD TURBO.SO I CHANGED NOTHING THEN GOT A NEW LATEST TURBO.. WAS MY CAR FASTER? WOW ABOUT A WHOLE ..5 /OR HALF A TENTH. I HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE 2001. AND WATCHING TURBO CARS SINCE ABOUT97-98. THEY COME OUT WITH NEW ??? TURBO EVERY 4-5YRS.:rolleyes:]A VERY SLICK/NAMED MEMBER OF THIS SITE SAID, AND TO EVERYONE.(HE DID NOT HIDE HIS STATMENT).SAID IT IS A WAY TO SELL TURBOS. THINK ABOUT IT. I AM LOKING FOR A DEBATE ON THIS. FRANKLY I JUST DON'T SEE 5-6 HUNDRED DOLLARS WORTH OF HORSE POWER IN THE NEW TURBOS. GEE GUYS HOW DID ANYONE EVER MAKE IT IN TO THE 10S LET A LONE 9S. SAME WITH ALUM/AFTER MARKET HEADS. STOCK PORTED HEADS WITH BIG VAVLES CARRY YOU A LONG LONG WAY. ASK RED ARMSTRONG. READ WHAT HIS THOUGHTS ON BUILDING A FAST TURBO IS.NOW HE PUTS THE BEST PARTS IN HIS CARS. BUT THAT IS TO KEEP THEM STRONG. BECAUSE HE IS NOT SELLING TURBO,ALUM HEADS ECT,ECT. OR SHOULD I SAY NO PUSHING THEM. HIS SET UP IS ON THE STOCK CONSERVTIVE. BUTHE SEEMS TO OUT RUN THE LATEST GREATEST PARTS MOTORS GOING.:eek: LOOKS LIKE I'M STARTING TROUBLE BUT JUST WHAT EVERYONE TO USE YOUR MINED. IF YOU KNOW THESE CARS OR ANY CAR . THERE ARE MORE WAYS TOO SKIN A CAT.;) THINK PEOPLE THINK. QUSTION THESE NEW PARTS DON;T JUST PUT THEM ON THEN SAY OHOO THIS IS SO FAST. SURE HEARD THAT DID THAT. MCPONCH.
 
The problem is most people don't know better, and don't want to be caught without the latest turbo, best oil filter, air filter, exhaust, spark plug wires, spark plugs. I think the worst craze is the worry about the new CEA 62/66 exhaust wheel turbos. 99% of the people running these turbos are even running them hard enough to see a difference, if there is even a measurable difference with a 3 bolt housing. I see alot of latest and greatest combos going slower than an old TE44 on a stock engine can go.
 
The turbo on my car has been on a few cars that ran 10.80s. Old as **** and a few people laughed and said it was junk. Of course these are the same people that push all the high dollar latest parts also. Noticed a huge difference in power at 18psi and I don't even have a stall to spool it yet.
 
mcponch said:
:cool IREMEMBER WHEN THE GT,GTQ TURBOS FIRST CAME OUT. WELL I HAD AN SOPOSEDLY OLD TURBO.SO I CHANGED NOTHING THEN GOT A NEW LATEST TURBO.. WAS MY CAR FASTER? WOW ABOUT A WHOLE ..5 /OR HALF A TENTH. I HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE 2001. AND WATCHING TURBO CARS SINCE ABOUT97-98. THEY COME OUT WITH NEW ??? TURBO EVERY 4-5YRS.:rolleyes:]A VERY SLICK/NAMED MEMBER OF THIS SITE SAID, AND TO EVERYONE.(HE DID NOT HIDE HIS STATMENT).SAID IT IS A WAY TO SELL TURBOS. THINK ABOUT IT. I AM LOKING FOR A DEBATE ON THIS. FRANKLY I JUST DON'T SEE 5-6 HUNDRED DOLLARS WORTH OF HORSE POWER IN THE NEW TURBOS. GEE GUYS HOW DID ANYONE EVER MAKE IT IN TO THE 10S LET A LONE 9S. SAME WITH ALUM/AFTER MARKET HEADS. STOCK PORTED HEADS WITH BIG VAVLES CARRY YOU A LONG LONG WAY. ASK RED ARMSTRONG. READ WHAT HIS THOUGHTS ON BUILDING A FAST TURBO IS.NOW HE PUTS THE BEST PARTS IN HIS CARS. BUT THAT IS TO KEEP THEM STRONG. BECAUSE HE IS NOT SELLING TURBO,ALUM HEADS ECT,ECT. OR SHOULD I SAY NO PUSHING THEM. HIS SET UP IS ON THE STOCK CONSERVTIVE. BUTHE SEEMS TO OUT RUN THE LATEST GREATEST PARTS MOTORS GOING.:eek: LOOKS LIKE I'M STARTING TROUBLE BUT JUST WHAT EVERYONE TO USE YOUR MINED. IF YOU KNOW THESE CARS OR ANY CAR . THERE ARE MORE WAYS TOO SKIN A CAT.;) THINK PEOPLE THINK. QUSTION THESE NEW PARTS DON;T JUST PUT THEM ON THEN SAY OHOO THIS IS SO FAST. SURE HEARD THAT DID THAT. MCPONCH.
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The only area id say for sure that has advanced wayyyyy beyond 10 years ago is the converters. Nothing can touch todays converter tech. Dont be fooled about Red Armstrongs cars. They are serious business and what you cant see is what makes you win races. Hes done a lot of r&d over the years. His cars are quick for a reason.
 
The newer technologies have their place and the individuals who have been saving for their mods reap the greatest benefits, as they will have access to the "latest and greatest" out there. Most of us older guys are trying to fill in the weaknesses in our combo's, made by uneducated or poor choices, ie. mis-matched parts, etc. If you are having problems w/spool-up, a b/b may be a great idea. Unfortunately, now your converter may be mis-matched and you can't afford a new one, because all your money went to the turbo!:eek:
 
You're right. What I can't stand is to save up for the latest and greatest and once you make the purchase, you discover that it's junk but someone else has come out with the now latest and greatest. As much as the parts cost for our cars, it seems that people could put some more R&D into it before they introduce it to the market.
 
lost2a6 said:
You're right. What I can't stand is to save up for the latest and greatest and once you make the purchase, you discover that it's junk but someone else has come out with the now latest and greatest. As much as the parts cost for our cars, it seems that people could put some more R&D into it before they introduce it to the market.
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the r&d is there. People just don't know how to apply the parts so they can get the most out of them. What good is a turbo that will support 800hp if the converter behind it won't couple 600hp? Till the bigger/newer is better escapes peoples silly minds nothing will change. The new tech has it's place and can be a huge advantage if it applied properly but rarely is
 
bison said:
the r&d is there. People just don't know how to apply the parts so they can get the most out of them. What good is a turbo that will support 800hp if the converter behind it won't couple 600hp? Till the bigger/newer is better escapes peoples silly minds nothing will change. The new tech has it's place and can be a huge advantage if it applied properly but rarely is
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bingo!!!
 
alot of times guys don't track the cars enough,to actually see what their particular car is doing.they buy cheap parts then may make a trip to the track,run crappy at 17psi on a smaller turbo,then they decide to buy a huge turbo and run that one at 17psi.i new a guy that was running 11.67 on a 66,right before my pass he told me he didnt believe the turbo was big enough to go 10's,then i ripped a 6.7 1/8 feathering the throttle after the 1000 i still went 10.90 at 115mph then i told him i was running a 64;)
 
mcponch said:
.......... IF YOU KNOW THESE CARS OR ANY CAR . THERE ARE MORE WAYS TOO SKIN A CAT.;) THINK PEOPLE THINK. QUSTION THESE NEW PARTS DON;T JUST PUT THEM ON THEN SAY OHOO THIS IS SO FAST. SURE HEARD THAT DID THAT. MCPONCH.
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It is interesting to see a post like this as many owners post their "whatever part" is the best? :confused:

Sure, they bought and paid for it and always want the "best" for their car, it then it is BEST for everyone. :eek:

When Red, Grumpy, Lonnie, myself and others were trying to wring out performance on these cars almost 25 years ago, there was, and still is, a cardinal rule when building a GN, and that is to have the right COMBINATION of parts for a given level of performance.

Also, most owners would go with a vendor of choice that had proven builds for their desired level, not asking "where can I get the cheapest......". Now we have many "internet experts" that modified their GN meeting their expectations, so this now must be the best way to go?

When we have done hundreds of cam, hundreds of converters, hundreds of turbos, hundreds of different builds, we still come back to the basics of how to spend the customers $$$$ to accomplish his goals. If they do not have a performance goal, they need to find one to do the job properly.

There is no doubt that I am "old school" still in building these cars, I very much like the 44/49 and TE-45A turbos with Garrett housings mainly because they work better than most "new" stuff. The ball bearing center sections and billet wheels have their place, but in only 5% of the competition builds.

My converter is a 10 year old race converter out of a super comp big-block car and has helped me leave a V-8 competitor at the line. The big "change" applicable to most of our builds is very simple - use a higher stall. Biggest problem I have with customer builds is they do not want what they consider a high stall, but put in what we found works and tell them later when they see it works for them. :eek:

Well, yes, I feel better now probably like the OP voicing his opinions and feelings! :biggrin:
 
I think that the advancements in technology are here to help you reach your goals. Why does it seem like some have something against the new billet stuff? Yes the 49/44 are nice turbos but they have models comparable in size now that will make more power, are more efficient and are still within reach of the average TB consumer. I remember 88s aluminum heads, and cantaloupe exhaust housings to run high-mid nines. Gen 6 DFI's or a center console full of chips. Race fuel in race TR's. Race Fuel in street/strip TRs. RACE FUEL in stock cars lol! A new class should be formed that will only allow parts from 1986-1996. That would bring humor to BG!!
 
jasjamz said:
I think that the advancements in technology are here to help you reach your goals. Why does it seem like some have something against the new billet stuff? Yes the 49/44 are nice turbos but they have models comparable in size now that will make more power, are more efficient and are still within reach of the average TB consumer. I remember 88s aluminum heads, and cantaloupe exhaust housings to run high-mid nines. Gen 6 DFI's or a center console full of chips. Race fuel in race TR's. Race Fuel in street/strip TRs. RACE FUEL in stock cars lol! A new class should be formed that will only allow parts from 1986-1996. That would bring humor to BG!!
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It would still run well into the 9's and embarass the hell out of a lot of people on here.
 
Chances are back when guys were bolting on these newer turbo's the old turbo wasn't close to being maxed out. Make no mistake though. The new CEA compressor wheels from Precision are the real deal. Light years ahead of the turbos 10 years ago. The day will come when a 62mm will run deep into the 9's.

Like Nick said. Combination. I'm a huge believer in getting it all right. Turbo size, cam size/rpm range and converter must be correct. There are plenty of guys on here who can take a 6262 and out run a lot of cars with a 76mm turbo if the combination is all wrong with the 76mm. All that crap we were fed 10 years ago about needing a bigger turbo to run faster at lower boost levels couldn't be further from the truth.

Converter tech has taken leaps and bounds in the past 4-5 years. This along with the data aquisition has allowed guys to take turbos that couldn't run 10's 10 years ago and knock on the 9 second door.
 
Dusty Bradford said:
Chances are back when guys were bolting on these newer turbo's the old turbo wasn't close to being maxed out. Make no mistake though. The new CEA compressor wheels from Precision are the real deal. Light years ahead of the turbos 10 years ago. The day will come when a 62mm will run deep into the 9's.

Like Nick said. Combination. I'm a huge believer in getting it all right. Turbo size, cam size/rpm range and converter must be correct. There are plenty of guys on here who can take a 6262 and out run a lot of cars with a 76mm turbo if the combination is all wrong with the 76mm. All that crap we were fed 10 years ago about needing a bigger turbo to run faster at lower boost levels couldn't be further from the truth.

Converter tech has taken leaps and bounds in the past 4-5 years. This along with the data aquisition has allowed guys to take turbos that couldn't run 10's 10 years ago and knock on the 9 second door.
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Agree 100%!

One thing we all know is these cars require combo and tune.
IMHO, for the AVERAGE street driven car enthusiast, some of the game changers are:

Alky Injection
Chip code – TT, Extender
Scan Tool – PL
Transmission Upgrades/Converter tech
 
Stumbled on this thread. 62mm turbos in the 9s, 67mm turbos in the 8s today. The new stuff is better, just needed applied properly.
 
Yes, the billet stuff has proven itself for sure. But not just the compressor wheels, the updated turbine wheels work well too. And spool up is quicker with these new turbos. The 6766 spools very fast.
 
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