HR BAR question????

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norbs

Classic fast, XFI, SPortsman & MS3 programming
Joined
May 25, 2001
Messages
6,212
According to the instructions it says.

"lower control arms that lower the rear mounting point, actualy aggravate this situation. They change the "instant center" which in effect "hits the tires harder. With insufficient weighttransfer and a harder hit off the line many racers will lower the rpm and/or boost levels in an attempt to regain traction."

I have my lower metco arms relocated, should i not do this and put them back to stock position?
 
I've put the Metco billet lower arms at the stock location with the adj upper metco arms to stock adjustment and the traction is SUPER, combine with the H&R 1 3/8 sway bar.THey say that relocating the lower arms makes your ride a lot rougher. Nice day. Gilles.
 
Reply to "norbs"...

"norbs", I would put the lower control arms back to their stock location...I you ever want to adjust the pinion angle, it's better to use adjustable UPPER control arms...
'bye!
Claude. :)
 
OK, i think i will put them back
 
"lower control arms that lower the rear mounting point, actualy aggravate this situation. They change the "instant center"

They change the instant center to what? If lowering them gives you proper instant center then that statement has to be inaccurate. Make sure you aren't undoing good work.
 
Norb,

Before you change them try launching the car first with the new sway bar. Lowering the lower arms will hit the tire harder.
 
Originally posted by John Larkin
They change the instant center to what? If lowering them gives you proper instant center then that statement has to be inaccurate. Make sure you aren't undoing good work.


The mounting points of the lower rear attachment points have changed, changing the intersect points with the top control arms.
And lowering the mounting point of the lower control arms does not give a proper instant center anyway. Better than stock though I guess.


I don't think you are "undoing good work", as it is a concern Paul has intentionally addressed in his own instructions.

I wish our cars had more effective suspension geometry out back. When the IC is behing the damn car, what is that supposed to accomplish. At least Buick was smart enough to fix this, but only for 547 cars.
 
There is really no perfect geometry for all cars since each level of performance and combination can vary so widely. What works for one car doesn't always work for another, even if the combo is almost a perfect match.

I go by a couple rules that seem to make life easy & get results with the least negative side effects:

Keep it simple! You can think yourself to death & try all kinds of things, but usually the simplist of ways turns out to be the best.

Try to make what you have work before trying something new. I know people that have gone mid 1.4's with stock un-boxed control arms with stock bushings! Can we all do it, certainly not. Could the combo have gone quicker with better suspension, by all means. It's all relative. A 9 sec combo can come out fine (for most of us) with stock setups, but won't be in line with other 9 sec cars or be as fast as they should or could be. Don't give up on what you have too soon.

Matched setups work best. Many people use brand X lowers with stock uppers or brand Y uppers & bushings in the top ears from brand Z, and wonder why it doesn't work right every time. We have been getting even better results from those who get our complete setup. Our stuff is designed to compliment & work great with any other manufacturers parts, but other manufacturers parts are not always the best thing to use. There are a lot of well known brands out there, and many of them have short comings that reduce or inhibit performance to some degree. A simple thing like installing new control arms with grease fittings all the way around, and either leaving the stock bushing in the upper ears of the rearend housing, or installing the competitors poly bushing (with NO grease fitting) that has twice the poly of the matching components. Now that one position out of the 4 will restrict movement & take away from weight transfer. Bunch of money spent, slight increase in performance, not what it should or could be performance-wise.

Bottom line, lowering the mounting point on the rearend for the lower ca's makes the instant center more appealing (by the book) for racing, but makes the car handle worse at high speeds when it is unloaded or under braking. Some may find it just works better for them doing that, and they don't want to change anything else or take time to tune it in. As said above, we can get a simplier setup working better, without the side-effects. The IC bracket idea just works a little better on some cars because it is a band-aid fix for something else not working right. They seem "at-home" on 12 sec cars that don't have enough power or converter to get a binding suspension moving quick enough. So instead of fixing the binding issue, the IC brackets provide relief. On higher HP cars, we are seeing a trend going the other way. Lowering the FOREWARD mounting point of the lower ca's, which puts the intersect point way our BEHIND the car instead of inside or in front of the car. This is because they have to tame down the geometry so they can apply full power on launch. With a suspension setup that is fine for a 11 sec car and an 9 sec motor, the car would do a wheel stand & flip over.
 
You just need to adjust until YOU are satisified. Every track is different, and every car is different.

When adjusting your center make sure you dont go TOO wild or stuff starts breaking.
 
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