Injecting race gas instead of alky?
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Hey this is a neat topic!
I've thought about it but not tried it. Actually I was thinking of injecting leaded race gas additive, maybe more bang for the buck that way. There are some real nice additives out there that could really bump up the octane if they are used in high concentration and injected only when the throttle is mashed.
Getting the fueling right would be tricky, but I think something like the old fashioned 7th injector setup with it's own pump and tank and return line / regulator would do the trick.
I wonder about mixing though. I guess if the alcohol kits and the old 7th injector setup distribute evenly to all cylinders then maybe this type of setup would too. But will the lead have enough time to mix well with the 93 octane fuel???
I think with this type of setup the O2 sensor would last a long long time.
I've thought about it but not tried it. Actually I was thinking of injecting leaded race gas additive, maybe more bang for the buck that way. There are some real nice additives out there that could really bump up the octane if they are used in high concentration and injected only when the throttle is mashed.
Getting the fueling right would be tricky, but I think something like the old fashioned 7th injector setup with it's own pump and tank and return line / regulator would do the trick.
I wonder about mixing though. I guess if the alcohol kits and the old 7th injector setup distribute evenly to all cylinders then maybe this type of setup would too. But will the lead have enough time to mix well with the 93 octane fuel???
I think with this type of setup the O2 sensor would last a long long time.
Red Regal T
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There's no reason. If you can run 30 lbs of boost injecting methanol or alcohol, what good would injecting race gas do?
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If somebody is running 30 PSI on alcohol or methanol, then they could probably run 32 PSI on real race fuel. (speaking from the arse, ofcourse)
Besides, it is a given that the energy content of alcohol and methanol and ethanol etc.. is much lower than gasoline. We can make more power on straight gas than on a mix of gas / alcohol.
Besides, it is a given that the energy content of alcohol and methanol and ethanol etc.. is much lower than gasoline. We can make more power on straight gas than on a mix of gas / alcohol.
Ethanol and methanol both have higher octane than most race gas. In addition, there is a cooling effect with alcohol that is much stronger than the cooling effect with injecting gasoline. My thought is that injecting race gas will foul the cat, and won't help as much as using alky.
Some times closed minds amaze me. Half the stuff we know about these cars we learned from someone trying something "stupid" that worked out for the best. I say give it a shot and let us know how it works.
If it's worse than alcohol, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
If it's worse than alcohol, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Night Train
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Let's take a vote. I say if you inject race fuel or additive instead of Alky, it will slow or blow. Benefit of Alky is primarily the cooling effect. The 7th injector has fallen out of favor since you can now get pretty much any injector size you want and it's easier to tune for 6 than 7 injectors.
I've thought of mixing a little race fuel with the alcohol. Reason being is most the time it is freezing here and the alcohol doesn't work well. I know guys that run straight alky in their cars and when it gets cold the cars barely idle. They have to inject pump gas just to keep it running. But on hot days straight alky will do more than race fuel.
One of the primary reasons alky works is the temperature drop, as mentioned before.
Use common sense: If running race gas through 6 50lb. injectors allows you to run 25 psi, think how big a nozzle you would have to run to allow enough race gas in to suppress detonation. It would be a bitch to tune as well. Methanol has way more octane than race gas, plus it cools BIG TIME!! My temp gauge drops hard when I boost my car on meth.
Now for the really common sense part: I pay less than $2 a gallon for meth, and barely use any to get the job done. You would have to use way more race gas to get the same effect, and race gas is like $6 or $7 a gallon.
Not to mention it won't foul plugs, 02's, and convertors.
Use common sense: If running race gas through 6 50lb. injectors allows you to run 25 psi, think how big a nozzle you would have to run to allow enough race gas in to suppress detonation. It would be a bitch to tune as well. Methanol has way more octane than race gas, plus it cools BIG TIME!! My temp gauge drops hard when I boost my car on meth.
Now for the really common sense part: I pay less than $2 a gallon for meth, and barely use any to get the job done. You would have to use way more race gas to get the same effect, and race gas is like $6 or $7 a gallon.
Not to mention it won't foul plugs, 02's, and convertors.
Red Regal T
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What good is injecting race gas? It's not going to cool the charge. You got six injectors injecting 93 octane. How much higher wil the octane be if you inject 116 out of one injector? Maybe you might raise the overall octane a couple points........maybe. Like someone said, the seventh injector has been done. THIS POST IS OBSOLETE! 
I've run an ATR 7th injector injector full time, with a modified manifold so as to cash using it for vaporization. While it makes an improvement on around town driving, it's no where's near as effective as dedicated Alky injector, from what I've seen.
And there's more then just heat absorbsion involved.
And there's more then just heat absorbsion involved.
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Back in the day I used to occasionally run leaded additives and always wished I had more to add to my tank. I'm talking about real high concentration leaded fuel additives, not the sh*tty autozone ricer MTBE stuff. What I'm thinking about is injecting straight leaded fuel additive, or possibly a mix of C16 and lots of additive. Something with really high tetraethyl lead content. Imagine a gallon of fuel with an effective octane rating of 140 or 150 or more just stashed in a fuel cell in your trunk.
This would require a completely separate fuel system to do it, which is why the old 7th injector might do the trick (big $$ for this setup is big drawback). If the fueling curves worked back in the old days with the 7th injector then there's no reason it would not work again.
The overall octane rating of the fuel going into the engine would be upped by the weighted average, for example (1/7)x140 + (6/7)x93. This example would yield 100 octane effectively. And it would come on only at high boost. Thus you could run around on pump gas and still have high octane fuel when you need it. When the engine is operating during normal driving conditions on 93 unleaded, the O2 will have a chance to clear up a little bit and should live a relatively long life.
It's just a possible alternative to alcohol setups. In case somebody wants to stick with gasoline.
fubar2.5... if there are more btu's in pump gas than in race gas, then I guess I am implying that one could make more power on pumpgas than on racegas. too bad our engines at 25 PSI would explode from detonation along the way though. At pump gas boost levels, we should be able to make more power with pump gas than racegas. Up the octane to fight detonation and suffer from loss of a little heat content... oh well. All I'm saying is that I have been to several tech sessions in the GSCA and have been told that high test racegas will always make more power than alky injection. So far it seems alky and 93 can get into the tens. Anyone gone faster?? (sorry, I'm not privy to the latest)
This would require a completely separate fuel system to do it, which is why the old 7th injector might do the trick (big $$ for this setup is big drawback). If the fueling curves worked back in the old days with the 7th injector then there's no reason it would not work again.
The overall octane rating of the fuel going into the engine would be upped by the weighted average, for example (1/7)x140 + (6/7)x93. This example would yield 100 octane effectively. And it would come on only at high boost. Thus you could run around on pump gas and still have high octane fuel when you need it. When the engine is operating during normal driving conditions on 93 unleaded, the O2 will have a chance to clear up a little bit and should live a relatively long life.
It's just a possible alternative to alcohol setups. In case somebody wants to stick with gasoline.
fubar2.5... if there are more btu's in pump gas than in race gas, then I guess I am implying that one could make more power on pumpgas than on racegas. too bad our engines at 25 PSI would explode from detonation along the way though. At pump gas boost levels, we should be able to make more power with pump gas than racegas. Up the octane to fight detonation and suffer from loss of a little heat content... oh well. All I'm saying is that I have been to several tech sessions in the GSCA and have been told that high test racegas will always make more power than alky injection. So far it seems alky and 93 can get into the tens. Anyone gone faster?? (sorry, I'm not privy to the latest)
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