Is there a easy way to discover which lifter is bleeding down?

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

Hello Guys,

So on my fresh build the car runs great, but on a cold start until the engine warms up there is the tapping sound of a collapsed lifter. When I got the set it came with (8) lifter sets and, of course I only needed (6). So I'm off work until after the new year and I'm about to take the valve covers off and then the intake to swap out the bad lifter. I was thinking of just looking for the one that acts different than the other sets.
Does anyone have any advice for finding the noisy lifter?

Chuck

 

[hotairgnx548]

Hello Guys,

So on my fresh build the car runs great, but on a cold start until the engine warms up there is the tapping sound of a collapsed lifter. When I got the set it came with (8) lifter sets and, of course I only needed (6). So I'm off work until after the new year and I'm about to take the valve covers off and then the intake to swap out the bad lifter. I was thinking of just looking for the one that acts different than the other sets.
Does anyone have any advice for finding the noisy lifter?

Chuck

Do you a oil filter with the anti drain back valve in it? Just thinking. John

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

Hello John,
I'm running a PTE Turbo Saver, with a remote (vertical) Wix filter (threads are up, spins on with open end up). Same set-up as I had before I broke the crankshaft and never had any noisy lifter issues before. I'm tempted to put the old lifters in and there matched length push rods. Machinist wanted me to go with new lifters with the build and I got the brand name Erson from a supporting vendor of this site.
Chuck

 

[TURBOELKY]

Saying you have a noisey morel lifter is about to start a WHOLE lot of drama....

What oil are you using on that new build? Has it been noisey since the first start up on the fresh build? And does it go away immediately once oil pressure is up? This is a roller if I remember reading your engine post correct?

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

Not looking for drama, simple question, is there an easy way to quickly tell which lifter is the problem?

Now that I think about it, I guess I'll take off the valve covers and get the magnetic base and dial indicator and check the travel of each of the rockers and look for the one that has the least amount of movement.

I have roller cam and rockers, 1st 100 miles I ran conventional 10-30 oil. Now running Mobil 1 full synthetic 10-30. I may have 150 miles on the engine at this point (developed a oil leak with the AN-4 fitting at the turbo with the feed line coming from the remote filter) as car is down waiting on a new oil line and fitting. Noisy from the 1st start up after rebuild, and ever since..... and always goes away after engine warms up every time.

Chuck

 

[EVIL]

Try this stuff. You can get it at Autozone.

If it doesn’t work or only works temporarily, then swap to another brand lifter. Find a set of comp 885 lifters and be done.

D

 

[ek02]

Pull the valve covers and run it. Pull the easiest side first, or the side with the most noise. You can zero in on the noisy lifter with a stethoscope or 3' piece of heater hose to listen through. One other way is to try to put a feeler gauge between the valve stem and the rocker arm until the noise goes away on that valve. It can be messy running it with no valve cover, but you will find the loose one.

 

[TURBOELKY]

By no means did I mean you were trying to start drama, in referring to the morel vs 885 argument that has gone on for years. This forum came to the conclusion morel lifters are not noisey etc.

Dump that Mobil 1 synthetic oil and stick to conventional oil. I wouldn't put synthetic ANYWHERE near a new engine, or any performance engine at that. I also don't think you want to change the first oil and filter for 1000 miles. Maybe someone more knowledgable, well known and respected can chime in, but I'm going to step out and say that Mobil 1 shit is your problem.

I would not be running synthetic in a engine with 150 miles...

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

TURBOELKY,

I'm trying to respect your comments, I've been turning wrenches for over 40 years and I am a PA certified journeymen machinist. The best thing to do with the conventional (for break in purposes good luck seating the rings with synthetic) oil, once the rings are seated, is to get it out of the engine, same with the filter (I would never recommend going 1000 miles on the break in oil). The rings were seated within the 1st 15-30 minutes of the engine running. This was done with a couple of quick blasts of 15# boost and letting the engine pull the car speed down between the quick hits of boost.
The lifter noise was heard from the 1st time the engine was fired up, I kept hoping that it would have been some minute debris in the lifter components that would work it's way out with running the engine (and perhaps it still might with say the CD2 Oil Detergent EVIL suggested above). Please note that I had extreme oil pressure on the cold start (100 psi), when I cut open the filter looking for something at 100 miles (glad I did). What I found is a few clumps of vaseline in the center section of the filter (from the oil pump being packed to help prime the pump, I used a drill to get oil pressure throughout the motor before firing it up), after the oil and filter change, the oil pressure was normal (cold start 75 psi).
I suppose I could be running a racing engine oil, conventional oil or some other type of synthetic besides Mobil 1, but I'm sure it's more important to keep whatever you run changed on a regular basis than what label is on the container. Please advise your recommended brand and type of oil & filter (PTS remote) for our engines that are converted to roller cams/lifters and are street rods with an occasional trip to the track.
I have a family holiday party today and I'm not sure when I'll get back to the Buick, but I'll report back what I find, I have (2) spare sets of Morel lifters that I plan on using once I find the one making the clatter. I also still have the full (6) piece roller lifter set from the last build and there matched length (new) push rods. I would only go back to these if I can't identify the defective lifter. Thanks for the advice and comments and keep them coming.

Chuck

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

Pull the valve covers and run it. Pull the easiest side first, or the side with the most noise. You can zero in on the noisy lifter with a stethoscope or 3' piece of heater hose to listen through. One other way is to try to put a feeler gauge between the valve stem and the rocker arm until the noise goes away on that valve. It can be messy running it with no valve cover, but you will find the loose one.

Thanks for the advice, I do have a stethoscope and feeler gages and lot's of rags to catch most of the oil, I tried to listen for the area of the noise and it's hard to pinpoint.

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

Try this stuff. You can get it at Autozone.

View attachment 269312

If it doesn’t work or only works temporarily, then swap to another brand lifter. Find a set of comp 885 lifters and be done.

D

Thanks for the advice, I really don't feel like wrenching again after just getting it together, I may give this a try 1st. I can't wait for my new AN fitting and SST hose to get here to get this project moving forward.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Recently I went through the same dilemma with morell short travel lifters. I had a fresh build just like you. I went back and forth with vendor. I was being told they HAD to be adjusted wrong. So I go through the adjustments again. If I was off it was only a cunt hair. Made no difference in how they sounded. They were actually more quiet on startup. As the motor warmed up they started to clank like a bitch. That job cost me dearly. Ended up pulling intake twice. The fix was a set of 885's. I switched them and have had 0 issues.

Then it was another thing to get money back. I went back and forth with vendor. I love the line " no one else is having problems". I was talked to like a idiot and had to wait for refund. Not a good experience.

If I were you I would get a different lifter or throw the old ones back in. You'll play russian roulette trying to pinpoint the noise maker. You'll switch out a set and another one will start making noise. If you're like me you don't mind work but can't stand practice.

Good luck man..

Rick

 

[Steve V]

Call Dave Husek and get a set of his lifters, I believe he has an exclusive that no other TR vendor has or can get. And send the new ones back asking for a refund

 

[Pronto]

How about with a warm engine, spinning it like you would do for adjusting the lifters and try pushing down on them to see if one pushes down easier than the rest?

 

[hotairgnx548]

Hello John,
I'm running a PTE Turbo Saver, with a remote (vertical) Wix filter (threads are up, spins on with open end up). Same set-up as I had before I broke the crankshaft and never had any noisy lifter issues before. I'm tempted to put the old lifters in and there matched length push rods. Machinist wanted me to go with new lifters with the build and I got the brand name Morel from a supporting vendor of this site.
Chuck

Chuck thanks for the reply. It was just me thinking "I wonder if---"Good luck with correcting you're problem. I've always used Comps. John

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

Recently I went through the same dilemma with morell short travel lifters. I had a fresh build just like you. I went back and forth with vendor. I was being told they HAD to be adjusted wrong. So I go through the adjustments again. If I was off it was only a cunt hair. Made no difference in how they sounded. They were actually more quiet on startup. As the motor warmed up they started to clank like a bitch. That job cost me dearly. Ended up pulling intake twice. The fix was a set of 885's. I switched them and have had 0 issues.

Then it was another thing to get money back. I went back and forth with vendor. I love the line " no one else is having problems". I was talked to like a idiot and had to wait for refund. Not a good experience.

If I were you I would get a different lifter or throw the old ones back in. You'll play russian roulette trying to pinpoint the noise maker. You'll switch out a set and another one will start making noise. If you're like me you don't mind work but can't stand practice.

Good luck man..

Rick

Hi Rick,

The thing that makes you crazy is that these are all brand new parts, and I could understand if I'm buying used parts that have sat around for some time.

The other thing I want to say about the Morrell lifters is that approximately half of them had a burr/raised metal. As I went to drop them in the holes somewhere catching and not dropping in the holes. Let me be clear they would go in the lifter bores but where not smooth, something was defiantly catching on them. So I discovered raised metal around the hole used for the roller shaft. I used some super fine emery to take off the raised metal then washed the lifters and soaked them back in the oil container (which also reminds me they were soaking in oil for a long time before going in the motor). Then they went in their holes nice and smooth...

Chuck

 

[gunzandgearz]

Im not sure this will help you and will probably even get some people that disagree with me on this but the lifters should not be pumped up or pre loaded with oil before install, they should just be lubed up real good externally.If you pre load the lifter with oil and go to adjust the lifter It will act like a solid lifter and not adjust out properly.

 

[gunzandgearz]

By the way one thing you might try is to pull valve covers off and adjust all of the valves a little tighter than normal, let them sit over night to bleed them down and adjust them one more time before going all the way thru intake removal again, hope this helps might not but worth a shot.

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

By the way one thing you might try is to pull valve covers off and adjust all of the valves a little tighter than normal, let them sit over night to bleed them down and adjust them one more time before going all the way thru intake removal again, hope this helps might not but worth a shot.

Thanks for the advice, makes sense to check the adjustment of all the lifters "one more time" before pulling the intake. Did a little searching and found this for the Morel lifters.

This is direct from Morels website.

Installing and Adjusting Morel Hydraulic Lifters:
1. Do not wash in any solvent. Wipe the parts off with a lint free towel.
2. Use 10W30 oil and lube the O.D. of the body and wheel.
3. Make sure the lifter-to-bore clearance on cast iron blocks is: .0015” - .0017”.
On aluminum blocks that oil the lifter (LS Series), the clearance is: .0012” - .0014”.
Both of these measurements are at 70 Deg F.
The aluminum block will have a higher rate of expansion and that is why the
clearance is tighter.
Adjusting the Zero-lash setting of the Lifter:
1. I always like using the firing order to set the valves. Put the engine on #1 cylinder.
2. What we want is the int. and exh. to be on the base circle of the camshaft.
3. Adjust the rocker until the push rod just starts to get tight while taking the pushrod
and rolling it between your thumb and finger. Once you feel drag, this is what we call
Zero-lash.
4. You are now ready to tighten down on the adjuster using the following method:
a. It is important to know the thread pitch, in threads per inch, of the adjuster
nut, because one complete turn of the nut will move a distance of one
complete thread. Therefore, verify the thread pitch of the adjuster nut,
because racing rocker manufacturers use different nut sizes and thread
pitches.
b. If your adjuster nut is 7/16 x 20 threads per inch, then divide 1 inch by 20
threads per inch. One complete turn down on a 7/16 by 20 adjuster nut will
move .050".
c. Next, divide .050" divide by 4 to calculate the distance for a quarter-turn of
the adjuster nut (.050" / 4 = .0125").
d. For a 3/8 x 24 adjuster nut, the calculations are:
1" / 24 TPI = .042" per full turn and .042" / 4 = .0105" per quarter-turn.
e. Use the chart below to determine how many quarter-turns to tighten the
adjuster nut after Zero-lash:
Cast Iron block and Cast Iron Head = .020" - .025"
Cast Iron block and Aluminum Head = .030" - .035"
Aluminum block and Aluminum Head = .045" - .050"
5. Repeat these adjustments for each cylinder running through the firing order

 

[gunzandgearz]

Yep that is just about how I do it but remember that is for chevy valvetrain where the valvetrain is adjustable, the stock buick rockers are torqued to spec unless you have aftermarket valvetrain that's set up to work this way, what setup are you running?