Leak in oil pan Girdled lower half

[Ryan]

Have a 4.1 and the lower half is studded and girdled. Have leaks dripping from all the stud bolts. Have heard this is a common issue but could not find any posts. Anyone have some advice? Also what Ft lbs should I torque them to?

Parts for sale
http://community.webshots.com/album/46422732dETvIS
Ryan

 

[750H.P.V6]

Ryan,

I've built a few girdled engines and I can tell you from first hand experience that they all leak somewhere. Typically the leaks are as you described at the studs around the preimeter of the girdle that secure it to the block.

The only suggestion I can make is to use silicone in the recesses where the nuts go prior to installing the brass washers and then use silicone on the pan gasket too. BTW, I torque the nuts that secure the girdle to the pan rail to 25 ft lbs max.

Neal

 

[Russ Merritt]

Then 3 coats of POR15 engine paint all around the girdle and pan gasket. That's my plan. We'll see how it works.

 

[Intercooler]

If you put The Right Stuff on the block to girdle and girdle to pan it will not leak. As a matter of fact you may have to cut it off with a utility knife.

 

[Ryan]

Neal

Thats what I was thinking of doing. Have some o2 sensor safe gasket silicone. Seams to be a ton of choices. Picked the one that mentioned the oil pan.

 

[steveX]

In the machine shop, Most of the time when we have to make a seal between two flat metal surface we use the PERMATEX Aviation "FORM-A-GASKET in liquid. we have great success with the stuff.

Direction: use brush (which is provided under the cap) apply a thin,even coat to each surface. Allow to air-dry a few minutes before fastening the parts into position. If thinning is necessary. add 188 proof denatured alcohol. For use on most type of gasket machined surface and screw.

* Applied as a liquid-changes to paste in a few second.
* Pressure resistant and leak proof to high octane gasoline, grease and lubricating oils (up to 400F /204F)
* Resists hot and cold water antifreeze, glycerin, fuel oil, kerosene, butane, and other fluids.

 

[750H.P.V6]

Steve,

This is good info and Aviaton Permatex is good stuff. We used to swear by the stuff when building VW engines. It's great for sealing between the case halfs. I don't think it will work between the girdle/block as there are some variations in the surface that it wouldn't be able to fill. Also the majority of leaks come from between the girdle and the oil pan from what I've seen.

Neal

 

[steveX]

Originally posted by 750H.P.V6
Steve,

This is good info and Aviaton Permatex is good stuff. We used to swear by the stuff when building VW engines. It's great for sealing between the case halfs. I don't think it will work between the girdle/block as there are some variations in the surface that it wouldn't be able to fill. Also the majority of leaks come from between the girdle and the oil pan from what I've seen.

Neal

Thank you i did not know this.

 

[750H.P.V6]

Steve,

The place where you can run into a problem sealing between the girdle and block is at the rear main cap. As you know, whenever you install steel caps or a girdle you need to align hone the main bearing bore. Some amount of material is removed form the caps which causes the rear cap to sit slightly below flush with the pan rail. You always want to use enough silicone at this point or a healthy size oil leak is guaranteed.

Neal

 

[cool 84]

I guess I was lucky with my old motor. The girdle didn't leak at all for the 3 years it was in use. I'm kind of scared to fire my new one now. I'm sure I won't be lucky twice. FWIW, I used regular black RTV for the girdle and a cork pan gasket installed dry.

 

[steveX]

Neal, thanks for the Info. i am sure i will looking to this when i rebuild the two 109 block which i will be selling.

One thing we must be sure of when using RTV silicone. this can be hard to do since we use assemble lube when assembling the motor. Any surface where RTV silicone is been apply MUST is very clean/oil free. we normally use brake or carb cleaner to remove any oil from area where RTV silicone is apply.

i also look at the Permatex catalog last night and the same sealer come in a form of jell/Tube but since Neal had pass experience with the girdle sealing. i think it will be best to do what he said.

 

[Ryan]

Dont want to yank the pan and girdle. Would like to remove the bolts, clean the area and put some sealer on it. Should I do it one bolt at a time and retorque or................?


Parts for sale
http://community.webshots.com/album/46422732dETvIS
Ryan

 

[86brick]

Any of you guys with leaks using the new RJC Racing Crank Scraper/Oil Shield?

http://www.rjcracing.com/RJC_Buick_Products/RJC_Engine_Girdle/CS/cs.html

 

[geno]

I like the permatex ulta black or grey and clean it with brake clean or i like to use starting fluid