lifter valley oil question

[slimtastic]

hey i was wondering if putting brass plugs in the six drain back holes down in the lifter valley would help reduce windage in the crank case.

would doing this affect items that need to be "splash oiled" like piston rings/ piston pins ect?

the only issue i could see would be the cup worth of oil sitting in the back of the lifter valley.....any thoughts?

 

[slimtastic]

by the way im running a roller cam....if that matters

 

[TurboDave]

The oil from the heads drains down into the lifter valley, as does the excess oil from the lifters.
How's the oil going to drain from the valley if you plug it.

 

[VadersV6]

Why not remove the oil pump while you're at it?
If anything, you want to open those holes up with a die grinder and radius the edges. You want that oil getting tback to the pan as fast as possible. Anyone make windage trays for these motors?

 

[slimtastic]

The oil from the heads drains down into the lifter valley, as does the excess oil from the lifters.
How's the oil going to drain from the valley if you plug it.

the large gaping hole in the front of the motor right behind the timing chain. the oil can still drain back, i was wondering if the time spent to plug the holes in the valley would be worth the gain in oil control that would otherwise smack the crank causing windage.

 

[slimtastic]

Why not remove the oil pump while you're at it?
If anything, you want to open those holes up with a die grinder and radius the edges. You want that oil getting tback to the pan as fast as possible. Anyone make windage trays for these motors?

well i figure some stage motors have solid lifter valleys. i would guess that on top of better block strength, this would yeild better oil control.

im not sure i see how a radius on those drain back holes would speed up oil drain back....i mean its all the same gravity.

 

[Ormand]

There are a couple of pictures in the Buick "Power Source" showing the lifter valley modified to dry up the oil. When it drains back to the pan at either the front or the rear of the valley, it doesn't hit the crank. The guys doing to modifications use a screen over the drain-back holes to keep crud from falling into the pan. I guess you pull the intake every so often, just to see what has gotten caught in the screen?

 

[slimtastic]

There are a couple of pictures in the Buick "Power Source" showing the lifter valley modified to dry up the oil. When it drains back to the pan at either the front or the rear of the valley, it doesn't hit the crank. The guys doing to modifications use a screen over the drain-back holes to keep crud from falling into the pan. I guess you pull the intake every so often, just to see what has gotten caught in the screen?

so what your saying is that i could (in following the powersource book) block off all but the rear-most of the drain back holes and the front hole for the timing chain, then epoxy screen the remaining oil drainback holes?

 

[VadersV6]

im not sure i see how a radius on those drain back holes would speed up oil drain back....i mean its all the same gravity.

You serious? Well in that case why not just plug every drainback hole and replace it with a hole the size of a spark plug gap. You think a 1 inch hole in the bottom of a bucket filled with water, wont drain any faster than a 1/4" hole?
You have alot of oil volume thats moving fast, and you cant get it to the pan fast enough at high rpm cause there is nothing pumping it in the return direction. All you can do is assist gravity by opening the holes up. If you cant drain as fast as its being pumped upward, the pan will go dry and your engine go bye bye. I think block oiling mods should be mandatory with anyone going to a high volume pump. As far as blocking the rear return holes goes, I think thats a very bad idea. Acceleration forces the oil toward the rear of the lifter valley. The lifter valley would almost have to totally fill up with oil before it would start draining. Just open up and radius all the holes and you'll be fine. Doing what you're talking about can cause more problems than help. Also, from the factory most oil galleys are drilled with a long drill bit from the front, and then one from the back. But the holes drift as they're being drilled, and they tend to not meet center to center. They can end up VERY far off from one another (where only 1/8" of the holes join), and this can create serious oiling problems. You can have a machine shop use 1 very long drill bit, like a 3/8", and run it all the way through. These totally eliminates the step. Then drill the ends of the galleys bigger, about 3/4" inch in, and tap the ends for 1/4" NPT pipe plugs, to replace the press in ones. Then work the front cover out. You can also drill out the oil feed holes coming out from the galleys, that go into the main webs. Then the holes in the main bearings get opened up to match. Then polish all the casting flash and open up and radius all the return drain holes. Between the polishing and opening those holes up, as well as everything else, you can actually make use of a high volume pump, and you will very unlikely every see an oil starvation issue again. This is the treatment we would do to all our high strung road race motors where a dry sump wasnt allowed. The engines would tear down after 500 miles at WOT, looking brand new.
If you want to re-invent the wheel to reduce windage, you'll end up disappointed. People have explored this stuff to death and its best to just take the advise of the pro-engine builders. Do some block oiling mods and a windage tray and you'll be golden.

 

[slimtastic]

You serious? Well in that case why not just plug every drainback hole and replace it with a hole the size of a spark plug gap. You think a 1 inch hole in the bottom of a bucket filled with water, wont drain any faster than a 1/4" hole?

well as of my last post i was thinking of the idea of plugging all but the rearmost and the front most holes. yes im serious.

As far as blocking the rear return holes goes, I think thats a very bad idea. Acceleration forces the oil toward the rear of the lifter valley. The lifter valley would almost have to totally fill up with oil before it would start draining. Just open up and radius all the holes and you'll be fine.?

in general there isnt alot of oil going to the top of the engine( as compared to the bottom) so i would think that keeping the rearmost hole and the larger drain hole just behind the t-chain open would probably be safe as far as oil drainage concerns for the top end of the motor.

If you want to re-invent the wheel to reduce windage, you'll end up disappointed. People have explored this stuff to death and its best to just take the advise of the pro-engine builders. Do some block oiling mods and a windage tray and you'll be golden.

ive already done the oiling mods. a windage tray is a good idea but when all the oil from the top of the engine is draining down directly over the crank, i feel it negates the idea of a windage tray.

 

[VadersV6]

Its not draining down ontop ofthe crank. Its draining down the sides. What you're doing is not good. Take it from an engine builder.