Lower control arms

[TRBON8R]

I think I'll be getting a set of lower control arms for my car pretty soon. Obviously if money was no object I would just get a set of new aftermarket arms. But considering I don't have a money tree in my backyard I need some honest opinions on whether a set of boxed stock arms might be good enough to get the job done? I want to eventually run high 10s. Thanks.

 

[GNracer2000]

A set of boxed in control arms will work great I will be getting some on mine really soon. Also be sure to put the urethane bushings in them they work wonders. Getting a set of upper control arms boxed in and with the bushings should help some.

 

[Jeff Rand]

The stock lower control arms will work OK but the area around the bushing is a weak area. I have had mine welded on the drivers side. My car runs in the ten's and I am now considering an after market replacement.
Jeff

 

[c&cgn]

Boxed lowers worked great for me. I am using the rubber 1LE bushings instead of urethane though. Godd enough for regular 1.5x 60's.

 

[Roger]

A set of new, boxed,with greaseable urethane bushings from Paul Ferry at www.hrpartsnstuff are very well made & cost less than a set of slicks.
By the time you fabricate, weld. put in new bushings & add up your time @.10 per hour - not to mention the one time you cut your hand, bash aknuckel - I'm not able to see my shade tree engineering comming close to the powder coated PF units. He also has the proper special tools available.

 

[blackbuick87]

I bought the pre-cut boxing kit from HR Parts and Stuff and it worked very nicely. There is no cutting of sheetmetal and the parts fit well so all you have to worry about is the welding. I think the kit for the lowers is $20, a great deal

 

[Terbro]

Can the welding for boxing the LCAs be done on the car or do the LCAs need to be removed?

Terry

 

[salvageV6]

I think the new bushings are just as important as boxing.

I think they have to be out of the car for welding.

I have Pauls HRParts in both cars.

Got the boxing kit and the new arms.

By the time you pay for welding if you don't have one and installation of bushings and all in the stockers you are gonna be close to the new arm price anyway.

Just my .02.

If you have a welder and can do the work then proceed with the boxing kit it's top notch with good directions and get the bushings.

 

[Terbro]

Originally posted by salvageV6

By the time you pay for welding if you don't have one and installation of bushings and all in the stockers you are gonna be close to the new arm price anyway.

Am I missing something? I saw on HRparts that their LCAs are $219 (the most expensive I've seen so far). If the boxing kit is $20 then how much are the bushings (didn't look)? They must be very expensive if it comes to almost as much as new ones. The welding shouldn't be more than $40.

Terry

 

[salvageV6]

I got my arms for about $175 when they first sold them.

Didn't know the price went up that much.

Bushing install too cost a few bucks.

Looks like boxing the stockers now is the way to go for sure.

 

[ronbuick]

Hi, Ben, I beleive that boxing your stock ones and the 1LE bushings will work great for you, they have worked very good on my car, Ron

 

[salvageV6]

Add up the 4 bushings and the labor to install them and weld the kit and I get about $143 hence my first post.

 

[turbo nasty]

Get the southside bars it may be more than 20 bucks but it is incredible trhe difference it makes

 

[Terbro]

salvagev6 - I'm basically with ya there. However, there is still the labor to install the $219 LCAs. So how does that work...the new LCAs have the bushings in them? Isn't there labor time to remove the stock bushings? I've been reading posts on how difficult it is to remove the bushings. They're inside the stock LCA, right? Or one takes the LCA out and the bushings are removed from the chassis separately. I'm at the office and away from my car, so I can't check the configuration.

turbo nasty - You say the diff. is incredible. What, the diff. between stock vs. Southside or boxed stock and Southside? What exactly is the difference in feel/performance. I've just installed a motor w/GN1 heads and am making tons of HP, and am having major traction problems. I just received Nitto DR tires, which will obviously help. I've not really having any wheel hop, just loss of traction. Will better LCAs help?

Thanks,
Terry

 

[machinegun]

I will try to answer some of the questions here on LCA's. First thing I recommend is to stay away from the South Side bars. First the installation is somewhat of a pain. 2 I have had them change the drive line to strange points that have made road driving a rough experience. I also had problems with traction due to the position of the pinion angle. Last but not least, they use a hard nylon bushing which tends to wear out quickly. This inturn changes pinion angle everytime you hit a bump and causes the bar to slap on the mounting points. At this point in time it starts to elongate the mounting holes and can further damage the mounting areas.

HRPARTSNSTUFF LCA's come with the bushings. The LCA's are a simple bolt in item. They come in standard and 1/4" longer. On 11.50 and faster cars go with the 1/4" longer for a slightly modified pinion angle. It will help. I also recommend the adjustable uppers at this point in time also. The Bushings are greasable poly bushings that are designed just for these lowers. They have a design to help spread out the grease to reduce any squeaking and to be grease on the vehicle. The poly bushings give an excellent ride quality and do not breakdown under load like the nylon in other LCA's. These LCA's eliminate flexing in the control arms for better control and more consistant launches. All this is complimented by perfect quality control and an excellent Black Powder coating. Although they may not be the cheapest, I will guarantee they are the best, so does the manufacturer. Look at their warranty. A would also remind you that unlike other LCA's, they will not damage the frame as much either. They also sell reinforcement kits for the frame should you need or want them.

With these cars making the torque they do, I would rather spend a couple of extra dollars and get something that is not going to break anything else. This is why as long as HRPARTSNSTUFF makes these, I will be using and installing these on all the cars he offers them for.

I hope this helps you.

 

[Terbro]

machinegun - Do you by chance work for HRpartsnstuff, or own stock? Informative...but it almosts sounds like you've got a vested interest.

Terry

 

[machinegun]

I help him sometimes but I purchased most of his items before I even met him personally. I have been to the SEMA shows and performance parts shows in Indianapolis also. You would be surprised to see what some people are selling. I had seen items that that I would not put on a go kart being advertised as hgih performance parts. Case in point, Look at the LCA's from HR. You will notice that first the area that holds the bushiing is a thick walled tube chamfered on both ends to eliminate bushing chrush and distortion. Look for that on others. Also if you look you will notice that the boxed part of the arm is as tall as the outside diameter of the bushing tube. You will also notice the the bushing tube is set into the square box so that it wraps around the bushing tube. These items actually draw strength from each other reducing flex and possible failure. If you look at some of the other brands, you will see tubes welded to the side of some bigger tubes. I am no design engineer but have been racing long enough to see this kind of stuff break. I am a big proponent of his items. I have also been around Terry Houstons old car some too. 8.63 at 160 on HR control arms. Kind of makes me beleive in them. Also for one other tid bit of info, last year metco's stock suspension car was only in the 8.90's. I am kind of prejudiced towards his items but the I have also seen the way he puts them together. Even I am not that much of a perfectionist. Sorry to get winded but these are the reasons I bought his products and use them as often as I can on others vehicles. I also own his motor mounts. Another work of art if you ask me. Jack Cotton runs the mounts on his car. I gues I am just one of those people that if I see some one has a good product, I let people know. This how the world goes round. If it bad, people will let you know.

 

[G-Force]

http://www.bmrfabrication.com/G-Body.htm

 

[KEVINS]

Originally posted by Terbro
I've just installed a motor w/GN1 heads and am making tons of HP, and am having major traction problems

Hi Terry,
I was going to stay out of this thread until you mentioned how much HP you were making so I figured I should mention a few things.
When setting up a Drag Suspension the most criticle part of the Control Arms is the Instant Center (IC) of the control arms. The Instant Center is the imaginary intersection of the Upper and Lower control arms. You can have the best bushings in the world and the stiffest control arms ever created but if the IC is NOT located properly in relation to the Center of Gravity (CG) of your car then you WILL NOT HOOK! Period. It is NOT the Parts List but how they are set up that makes a car hook.
If you are making a lot of HP on limited tires then you "may" want to stay away from Lift bars because these will "hit" the tires initially by increasing the AntiSquat (AS) to very high levels then unload the tires when the chassis settles. I can plot out your cars current geometry if you want so we can see exactly what it looks like.
Using the stock geometry may not be any better "as is" because the IC may be BEHIND your car but lowering the car changes the IC position and may move it to a more desired position. Again having me plot out the geometry is the ONLY way to know For Sure what system (if any) will work.

Generally you want the LCA to be somewhat level and the UCA to be angled downward. You don't want the LCA pointing upwards because this increases the AS value but again plotting the geometry will tell you what angles you need for the UCA's and LCA's to optimize the IC position.

See my Launching a Drag Car web page in my sig for more info. I explain how you want the chassis to be set up and what you want each component to do.
My Tech Page in my sig has the graphs of my cars before and after control arm angles so you can see where you want the IC to be positioned.

hth's a bit.
ks

 

[machinegun]

I agree with Kevins. Setup will make a world of difference. That is why I personally used the adjustable uppers. It worked well for me.