Need combo help

[SS_Sean]

I'm wanting to run low, low twelve to a high eleven with my 86 GN. Was wondering if I could get some suggestions on the combo, so I know what needs to be done next. I'm new to GN's and don't speak the language yet. Here's what I've got:


150k miles on chasis
Stock Turbo
Stock Intercooler with the Duttweiler enlarged neck
New Shocks
Fairly New Brakes
Custom short ram intake with K&N filter
Raised valve covers
Stock heads with new valve springs and ARP head Studs.

Fuel System:
Hot wired walboro 340 pump with 36lb injectors and an adjustable regulator.

Engine:
212/212 456* lift comp cam
Clevite 77 Bearings
Forged TRW Pistons
Red 103 chip
Main oiling holes enlarged to accomodate H/V front cover.
24 pounds of oil pressure at hot idle
10,000 Miles on motor
Billet Mains with Arp Main Studs
10/10 stock crank
Resized Rods with Arp bolts
High Volume front cover
Royal Purple oil since break-in
All AutoMeter gauges including Oil Psi, Fuel Psi, and Boost/Vacuum.
Scanmaster
Has a translator plus
Tires are BFG's

 

[QUIP'6']

te-44, ta-49, gt 6131, gt3255 all of these with the right tune will get u there mid to high 11'ns also may need to think of different injectors

 

[ES1]

Looks like you got it covered but your will have to run race gas / alky and probably Drag Radials.
Boxed LCA and a swaybar or airbag on the right side will help with the hookup.

 

[SS_Sean]

The m/t drag radials are on the list. Also going with a nice set up upper/lower CA's. Also going to get the stock 58mm throttle body ported to 62mm, along with the turbo, and the elbow.

Do I really need to run larger injectors and turbo? I was hoping to hold off on that, as that's going to run $1000.

 

[QUIP'6']

The m/t drag radials are on the list. Also going with a nice set up upper/lower CA's. Also going to get the stock 58mm throttle body ported to 62mm, along with the turbo, and the elbow.

Do I really need to run larger injectors and turbo? I was hoping to hold off on that, as that's going to run $1000.

not with stock turbo just the 6131 but if it were me i woudnt spend 1000 on those three items just buy a low mile 44 or 49 turbo for 450 to 500 and run the piss out of it. that ported elbow is only worth a tenth and the car will get there on a stock elbow 199 for umi upper and lower turbular arms that leaves you 300 or so unless your concerned about stock appearance

 

[ES1]

I agree that I would upgrade the injectors / chip first as you will be on the edge with the stockers.
People have ran 11s with the stock turbo with alky/race gas.
I would get the DRs, LCA, injectors/chip.
I would do the other stuff later.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

yep, injectors and chip. I'd go with 60/65# motrons in case you start running high 10's you won't have to upgrade for a while.

until you port the heads, they will hold you back if you have everything else right.

 

[SS_Sean]

I agree that I would upgrade the injectors / chip first as you will be on the edge with the stockers.
People have ran 11s with the stock turbo with alky/race gas.
I would get the DRs, LCA, injectors/chip.
I would do the other stuff later.

The car already has 36# injectors and a red 103. I also have a red 108. Larger injectors than that to run high elevens?

If the suggestion is 60 or 65# motrons, which chip would be suggested? There are so many out there, and I have no experience in selecting a decent one that will manage everything adequately. Sounds like I could pull it off at a reasonable cost.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

The car already has 36# injectors and a red 103. I also have a red 108. Larger injectors than that to run high elevens?

If the suggestion is 60 or 65# motrons, which chip would be suggested? There are so many out there, and I have no experience in selecting a decent one that will manage everything adequately. Sounds like I could pull it off at a reasonable cost.

I know you have 36#ers. I went 11.80's on 37#er maxed out @ 115 mph. Here's why I say get plenty of injector and the right chip that is streetable so you don't have to upgrade too often (you'll save some $$$ in the long run). Oh, here you can see a cam lobe that tried to exit my block. I salvaged the head castings and intake manifold from this engine and that's about all that survived. Everything from the balancer to the input shaft of the tranny got toasted.

Everyone swears by TurboTweak chips. I run custom Jay Carter chips cuz he is a cool guy and my car goes fast with them.

 

[Blown&Injected]

36pph injectors will go solid into the high 11's (I went 11.7x with 36pph blue tops)

bigger turbo and good down pipe.

just cut to the chase and get big everything now

 

[SS_Sean]

just cut to the chase and get big everything now

But seriously, folks. I'm trying to figure out what works. I'll do the suspension upgrades, no problem there. Just hoping for some solid input on the motor side of things.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Check for cracks and leaks in the driver side header and get that welded up.

A 3 inch downpipe and replace the cat with an open dump or a well flowing dual exhaust w/ no cat would help too.

There is no mention of the shape of the tranny. If you are slipping and flaring on shifts then you won't go as fast. Also, a bigger turbo like a TE44 will want some more converter. A 3000 stall w/ lockup is perfect, although the stock D5 works too, but spools much slower.

 

[SS_Sean]

Right now it has a 2.5" down pipe, and stock exhaust. Duly noted. Trans is stock/rebuilt with a shift kit. I'll have to see how the stock converter runs. Larger turbo. That may have to be last on the list. :biggrin:

 

[Blown&Injected]

But seriously, folks. I'm trying to figure out what works. I'll do the suspension upgrades, no problem there. Just hoping for some solid input on the motor side of things.

OK, no joke.

If I were to do it over, knowing what I know now (original owner 86 GN)

1) LT70 or 72 turbo
2) 83 pph injectors - ECM mod needed (not much $)
3) 3500 stall
4) all the usual stuff any engine gets so this part is common to most all GN's:
good down pipe, hot wired 340 fuel pump...

 

[Ryan87GN]

As far as hitting 11's on a budget, I would say get a 3" dp, run open at the track, I would get 2 airbags- I like the driver side @~7psi, and the pass side @ 15psi. As far as chip selection goes, I would max the car out on the RA108, then drop in a Conleys max magnum chip (add at least 5psi static on the fuel before going WOT). This might max out your injectors, but if you tune it right meaning ZERO knock, then you should get some high 11's with the stock turbo. All this is assuming you can pull a 1.60 60ft.

So 3"dp- $300, pair of bags- $70, Conley's chip- $35 (i think??) so thats $405. Good luck, go run some 11's.

P.s.- the max mag chip is 36* of timing and I wouldn't run that much with any turbo but stock. Make sure your gas is at least 110. I've made at least 40 passes from 11.90 to 11.60 with 36lb injectors (te44 though). Remember ZERO KNOCK.

HTH,
Ryan

 

[ES1]

Since you have the 36 injectors, I would leave them alone.
I really like having a knock detector & a FP gauge that I can watch while I run.
Before you start putting a bunch of stuff on, I would go to the track and see where your at now.
Don't worry so much what your times are but what your MPH is. MPH tells you how much HP your making.

 

[murphster]

I'd look at getting an alky kit for your current combo, for multiple reasons. First of all, with an alky kit you don't need as big of injectors since the alky works like a 7th injector. With the 36# injectors you should be good well into the mid to high 11s. Another benefit of an alky system is that it helps maximize a stock turbo/intercooler combo as the cooling effect of the alky really helps combat the heat from the stock combo. With some research you'll find that mid 11s have been achieved on a stock turbo/intercooler combo with alky. A more realistic goal would be very high 11s or low 12s though with a stock turbo and alky.

With a cam, you should be able get low 12s with some tuning and a good 60ft. For tuning, I would go with a nice tuneable chip like a turbotweak chip and some kind of gauge to help you tune such as an EGT or a wideband. You are going to have to run a decent amount of boost so you want to be able to monitor the tune. I agree that you should have a knock detector or an audible knock detector. With the scanmaster it is too easy to miss the knock when you are pushing the limits. A FP gauge on a braided line that you can throw up on the windshield is good to verify that your fuel pump and regulator are working fine. Without a FP gauge that you can see while racing it could take a long time to find out that the fuel pump is not working right, maybe too long.

For good 60fts you will just have to work your way there. Some cars do well with a fairly stock setup. Boxed lower control arms should probably be done. You should look into getting a good rear sway bar too. Maybe a used ATR bar to save some $ or an H&R parts rear bar thats a little more money. If you can hook up without a big rear bar, all the better. But if you can't, then its something you will probably have to do. Removing the front sway bar and putting in 70/30 or even 90/10 front shocks should help too.

Any 3" downpipe and a cutout for an open dump will meet your needs as far as exhaust. You can get a used one with a stock elbow for pretty cheap. Save your money as that is probably the best bang for the buck. A new downpipe such as a Terry Houston 3" is better, but you probably won't notice the difference at the track compared to a cheap 3" downpipe until you are well into the 11's. The dump will bypass your stock exhaust you don't need to worry about replacing it, for now.

I would save the money on the throttle body. Probably no difference at your current power levels. For an extra safety margin a power plate should be considered.

Your current combo is all you need. You should have no problem getting into the low 12s with the above. If you can't get low 12s then a bigger turbo will only mask an underlying problem.

 

[vader87]

My $.02. My old combo was as follows:

TE44
206/206 roller cam
THDP
GN1 aluminum heads
stock intercooler
Alky
42 lb. injectors
Power Plate
2800 stall

Best time was 11.46 with a terrible tune. I really thing I could have squeezed a tenth or two more. That combo was on the car when I purchased it. I recommend the Power Plate, Alky and a turbo tweak chip first. These three upgrades all you to turn up the boost SAFELY! See where you stand. Then a down pipe, 60 lbs. Motrons and have Eric burn your chip again for the injectors. See where you stand. If you are still not happy, get a bigger turbo ($$$). See where you stand. Then a cam and port work will be needed. Remember no matter how much power you "bolt on", if the tranny is weak, you will never reach your goals. I am very happy with my Motrons and TT chip. Car has never ran this good.

This hobby cost money so be prepared the spend it to go faster! :biggrin:

 

[SS_Sean]

This hobby cost money so be prepared the spend it to go faster! :biggrin:

Apparently you didn't read my signature.

Good advice in here. Thanks guys.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

OK, no joke.

If I were to do it over, knowing what I know now (original owner 86 GN)

1) LT70 or 72 turbo
2) 83 pph injectors - ECM mod needed (not much $)
3) 3500 stall
4) all the usual stuff any engine gets so this part is common to most all GN's:
good down pipe, hot wired 340 fuel pump...

Yep, go straight to a 70 turbo, ported GN1 heads, 212/212 billet roller cam, TA block, forged internals and personally I'd go with a 3800 stall right off the bat. None of this incremental stuff where you lose money reselling parts to get new parts...