Need module info..

[milesengineer]

I have been looking at the newer type of igniton modules with the individual coil packs and trying to find out if it will work and what the differences are.


Right from the start the newer type module has 14 wires to our 13. I have tried finding a schematic on them and have been unable to.

The reason for this is trying to find a good stock unit is next to impossible and the aftermarket has only garbage to offer. There had to be a reason for GM to go to the newer design and I am hoping with a little work I can make it work on the GN.

If anyone has done this or has any info I would appreciate it.

 

[GNVenom]

GM really didn't go to a newer design. The GEN II coil system with the individual coils were spec'd for the normally aspirated 3.8L engines in the 86 and 87 FWD cars. Those modules use one less pin in the connector (they tie the positive feeds from the module and the coil together). Trouble is, they tend to be "noisy" because of it. They work great in non-turbo applications, but tend to act up at unusual times in our turbo engines.

Stick to the OEM Delco module and the GEN I system with the single coil pack.

Load and print this page for more detailed info on our ignition system.
-John

 

[pacecarta]

the missing pn on type 11 coilspack /modules is for power , but it doesnt need it anyway as the 13pin is also power
on ours the 14th pin (pin P) is coil power and the 13th is ign module power , the type 11 doesnt need two power inputs

if the connector plugs fits in in it will work , some later type 11 take a different plug and you cant just plug into our harness

heres a link

http://gnttype.org/techarea/ignition/type2coils.html

 

[milesengineer]

John,

When you say that the newer modules are noisy is that from the source of the power wire? If so is there anyway to shield it or run from a different source.

Can I take a plug from a newer car and splice it into the GN and make it work?



Thanks

Lee

 

[GNVenom]

The noise external and far as I can see, there's no way to isolate it on the GEN II system since they share a positive feed. Besides, I don't believe the spark is any better with the single coils.

The newer GM 3800 engines use a gray connector. This one won't fit as the keying is different. The connector is available as a splice end if you suspect the connector being a problem. I've seen many bad connectors recently.

-John

 

[Lee Thompson]

I have a different look

I have run the type II coils for years. This past BG event I did have 1 of the coils go bad. Only trouble I have EVER had. I have never heard of NOISE. The module is still available from GM. Also they still have NEW GM methanol coils that are hotter. If your TR plug will fit the module--it will work. If you are looking @ the bone yard--I believe the 86-87 cars had the correct module. Do a search as this has been covered many times. BTW, I did run into an instance where a VDO tach would not work with the Type II.
If you can buy wholesale from GM--you can have a NEW module and methanol coils for under $250.

 

[norbs]

The methanol coils do have a hotter spark for sure, but the problem is voltage drop through the single feed, if you hot wire it , it will help.

 

[GNVenom]

Lee, I know there have been quite a few cars out there that use the GEN II system and work well. The noise I am referring to is visible on the scope when you bench test the coils. It may very well have to do with the wiring on the car though, as a drop in voltage will cause the noise level to increase and become more of a problem.

When testing the coils with the CCCI Simulator, I found that the spark appeared to be hotter at the upper RPM's, but an ohm test indicated that the spark would be pretty equivalent to the GEN I system.

Hotwiring the coils is definitely a good thing to do. The system draws only 3 amps at idle, and tapers off to around 1.2 amps at 8000 RPM, but the voltage level plays a major role in the spark intensity and voltage. The factory wiring limits the voltage to the coils by nature (and the 84-85 cars have a resistor wire in the coil feed - must be removed when converting to the 87 coil pack).

John

 

[ijames]

Hotwiring the coils is definitely a good thing to do. The system draws only 3 amps at idle, and tapers off to around 1.2 amps at 8000 RPM, but the voltage level plays a major role in the spark intensity and voltage. The factory wiring limits the voltage to the coils by nature (and the 84-85 cars have a resistor wire in the coil feed - must be removed when converting to the 87 coil pack).

Wonder if using something like the KenneBell boost-a-pump power supply to hot wire the injectors, coilpack, and ecm would be a good thing, to give them a regulated say 14.5 volts irrespective of alternator output voltage? Course, I wonder how good the voltage regulation is on that, and how expensive a better switching power supply would be?

 

[GNVenom]

I have a test fixture that has an adjustable power supply. Using a known bad coil, I was able to make it work properly by adjusting the voltage to 15.2 volts. Then using a known good (brand new) coil pack, I was able to make it fail by dropping the supply to 10.8 volts.

These coils are very voltage sensitive. This is where the use of a volt booster really makes the difference.

Some might argue that the volt boosters are "band-aids" but I disagree. The test fixture conclusively proves the benefit of a higher system voltage, at least for the ignition system.

But of course, it's just an opinion...