oil controversy

[KillrV6]

i have been told so may diffrent things throughout my past few years of turbo buick ownership.

some say synthetic

some say 10-30 regular

some say 20-50 regular

ill tell you right now, my car has 160k miles on it, motor too,
and has a slight rear main leek. i have tried all 3 on my car. synth made the rear main leek worse. i asume that a motor w/ 160k miles on it has pleanty of internal clearence, thus some thicker oil may be better?

what are your thoughts on this guys?

 

[salvageV6]

Assuming it's hot there and you ain't in the mountains I'd say in the summer go with 20/50 Valvoline and in the "winter" I'd go with 10/40 Valvoline.

That would be dino. oil for me.

 

[stickybones]

Here's my story...

For the first 110k miles, I used synthetic. Mostly Mobil 1 10w-30 (sometimes 5w-30 in the winter). I always had some kind of oil leak coming from somewhere or everywhere.

I busted my timing chain (freak incident) and got my motor rebuilt at the 110K mile mark. Ran dino oil for the break-in and the motor didn't leak. I chalked it up to the professional rebuild job. After the break-in, I switched back to Mobil 1 10w-30. The motor started leaking at the pan gasket almost immediately. Drained the oil and went back to dino oil straight weight 30. Leaking stopped. Next oil change, I tried Royal Purple 10w-30 synthetic. Again motor leaked bad at the pan gasket. Drained the oil, replaced the pan gasket and filled 'er up this time with Kendal GT-1 10w-30 dino oil. That was 2k miles ago. Not a leak anywhere.

The moral of this story is that IMO synthetic oils leak and dino oil don't. Can't explain why, but they just seem to.

Bonus is that the dino oil is cheaper. Some "experts" claim it clings to the metal surfaces better (doesn't drain off as quickly) too. It probably lubricates just as well and except maybe for the turbo bearings, the oil never sees the heat that would "coke" the oil.

Right now, I'm sold on the dino oil. 10w-30 Kendal GT-1 is what I plan on using from now on indefinately. I've converted.

Mike

P.S. I recently changed the timing chain on my Jeep Wrangler with about 112K miles on it. I've always used dino oil in that motor. (I know it's not the same thing as the TR motor.) Except for some varnish, there was no sludge or anything in the cover or on the front of the motor.

I think dino oil would be just fine.

 

[TURBO2]

Dino oil makes seals swell up. So if you have oil leaks you won't notice them as much. Synthetics DO NOT make seals swell, so it is easier for the oil to find places to leak out.
If your going to change your oil every 2,000 to 3,000 miles save yourself a lot of money and use Dino Oil. If your going to use extended oil changes, 7500 miles and beyond, then definitely use the highest quality synthetic that you can get. HTH, Curt.

 

[Lee_Burough]

I'm full of "opinions" today

First Opinion:

GM engineers had "reasons" for recommending the oil viscosities they did. I'm sticking with 5-30 in winter and 10-30 in summer. Those thicker oils may give your gauge a better oil pressure reading, but, I'm not willing to sacrifice good oil circulation for a higher guage reading. REMEMBER , our engines have very close tolerances around the pistons and such....Thick oil doesn't "Go There" as well as the recommended oil viscosities do (for cooling or wear prevention.)

Second Opinion:

Dino oil is "good enough" for all our engine operating conditions, period. Compared to Castrol, there is only an extra 80 or 100 degrees before the synthetic oil begins to smoke, and, that temperature is 200 degrees over the operating temp of our engine. Nothing really gained by synthetic there.

Third opinion:

Synthetic oils do have a percieved advantage during cold engine starts after long times sitting in the garage. So, I use a blend, or, put a quart of synthetic in with each oil change for those cold starts.

Fourth Opinion:

Multi-viscosity oils with wide ranges (20w-50 etc.) revert to the base oil viscosity after some use. The plastic helixes in there which provide the change in viscosity break with use. That is why multiviscosity oils revert to the base viscosity with use. Experts recommend maximum ranges of 20 or 25 units of measurement for the "range" in viscosity, i.e., 5w-30 or 10w-30 is max safe multigrade oils.

Lastly:

The most important decision is to change the oil regularly (3k is fine with me, or, annually)

How's that for being on "both sides of the fence?"

 

[WakkoSS]

Good stuff on this thread so far. You might want to check http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

I use Mobil 10w-30 in my 40k mile GN. I change the oil at about 4-5k miles and use the higher quality filter. Am I wasting my money? Possibly. For me, I'd rather spend the extra money and be sure the turbo won't coke and get all the protection I can get out of my car. Synthetic IS more prone to oil leaks...and you should never switch from dino to synthetic if you've been running dino for 80k miles or so.

Just my .02.

 

[6SENSE]

Good info in this thread. Only one thing I need to know. Maybe a stupid question, but what is "dino oil"? Is this just refering to "regular" oil (as opposed to synthetic/ part-synthetic).
Thanks.

 

[bruce]

Remember the econo roller fiasco?.

While some guys were having cams die in 100-200 miles with syn oils, I went almost 6,000 miles, before noticing ANY wear. At 6K I could barely feel the damage to the cam with the finger nail test.

Straight Valvoline 50W Racing.
I've only been using it since 70, and haven't had a reason to switch.

Seals are designed to slightly swell from exposure to oil. This can be a problem with the syn. oils, since they been trying to get this characteristic of syns right for almost 30 years now.

Not to mention that the syns drain off more completely. So at first start up there is less of an oil film.

Yep, I'll stick with Valvoline Racing.

 

[stickybones]

but what is "dino oil"? Is this just refering to "regular" oil (as opposed to synthetic/ part-synthetic)

Yes. Dino oil is regular, non-synthetic oil.

 

[6SENSE]

Thanks stickybones.

I have a recent issue that I believe this thread may relate to.
I recently changed headgaskets, after blowing one. I let the engine run with some dino oil for roughly 10 minutes, then drained. Put some more dino oil for a day and drove the car a few times. The next morning I drained it. Now that I was satisfied that the engine was pretty much cleaned out I put in Mobil 1 15w50.
Now I am not exactly sure on the exact milieage on this block. I know it has been opened up before, because when I did a rear main seal it had already been done before. There was also aftermarket headgaskets on it. Main bearings and crank were in such good shape that I thought it may have been rebuilt. However, I recently noticed that the pistons were STD, so not sure what all had been done (unless there was no reason to bore?). I just know that it always ran great and VERY quiet. Its the only TR engine that I ever had that all I could really hear was the injectors. Now all of a sudden I am hearing a bit of upper valvetrain noise. Not loud at all and not a defined tapping but noise that wasnt there before.
I am almost positive that this engine hasnt had any synthetic in it before. Did I make a mistake of putting synthetic in it? Does this sound like a circulation problem possibly due to the synthetic?

 

[steve hughes]

I'm sold on dino oil. After working at UPS for 7 years as a mechanic, i have seen trucks run under worse case conditions. Gas trucks sometimes go 7000 - 8000 miles between oil changes. Powerstrokes and 5.9 Cummins 10,000 - 15,000 miles between changes. NO idle time even on the diesels. Startem up and go. Shut of the engine before the truck stops rolling. These trucks are either full throttle or nothing. We run non-synthetic oil in everything. In the seven years i've been there we lost ONE turbo on a 5.9 Cummins. We have also had several 4.3 chevys go over 250,000 miles on cheap dyno oil . I don't think we have had many road tractors that had under 1,000,000 miles on them before overhaul. Take it for what it's worth . This tells me synthetic ain't neccesary. Read some of the books on stage motors. Ruggle's didn't use synthec in them.

 

[Red Regal T]

RE: OIL CONTROVERSY

I think there's a great need to drill for oil in Alaska........NOW!

Gulf of Mexico, too!

 

[Buick Beginner]

More 2 cents

I was told by a local mechanic that synthetic can squeeze itself through much smaller spaces than Dino oil, this also would explain the synthetic oil leaks. - BB

 

[Razor]

I change my oil when it looks dirty..I pull out the dipstick..if its dirty..it gets changed.

I'm partial on synthetics, and the fact that some of our cars are driven 100 times harder than any conventional passenger vehicle..I mean 450 Horses out of a little V6 is perty stressful...less alone those that consume huge amounts of alky.

But I know..Buick guys are some of the cheapest guys on the planet

Mobil1 for me..weight depending on climate conditions...and a Mobil1 filter..

40 bucks is cheap in the overall scheme of things in my opinion. Its what makes me feel confident. So

hehe

 

[alb84]

I use synthetic. Been using it since 83, and have had no oil related failures. Less friction is good, more friction is bad. Just make sure the rings are seated first. Later....Danny

 

[turbodave231]

Turbos and bearings are expensive. GM uses Mobil 1 as factory fill on Corvettes and many others. If "dino" oil were better they would use it (because it is cheaper).

I have never experienced the leaking problems described in this thread. Just a seep from the rear main.....heck it wouldn't be a Buick without a leak!!

Check out this link under photo album:

http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp

Dave

 

[SuperSix]

Bah.. Synthetic is a waste of money on an engine designed neraly 20 years ago.

Especially as they get up in mileage. With a 160k car THe average my 2 TRs have) I would stick with regular oil, unless you love oil stains on your driveways and going through 1-2 quarts of overpriced "oil" between oil changes. Our motors and seals were designed for use with dino oil, and I'll be sticking with it.

Again, refer to fleet vehicles. Semi's and most other long-term road haulers use regular oil, and have no issues with "coking" or wear-related failure, and most semi's go over 1 million miles between rebuilds.

As far as Corvette using Mobil1 as factory fill, do you think GM pays anything at all for that oil? They probably get it for free, given all the marketing and advertising they get. Why not on all cars? You think a Cavalier owner is going to use Mobil1 through the life of the vehicle? Nope. Will the Corvette owner? Are the seals on a new Corvette motor improved in design and designed with synthetic oil in mind? Undoubtably.

If I had a brand-new motor, with updated seals, I MIGHT use synthetic, as I won't argue it has better anti-friction capabilities, but for a 100k+ motor, dino is the only reasonable choice.

 

[d0n_3d]

i was using mobil 1 full synthetic 10w30 for higher mileage engines for a long time...it was getting too expensive changing it every 3000 miles...it also leaked like crazy through the rear main seal...

i have now switched to valvoline 10w40 semi-synthetic and the leaks are still there but i don't think it's as bad...also my car uses oil...after a month or so the oil level goes from full to almost the add 1 quart level...

i saw that valvoline has a 20w50 racing oil at autozone...is it ok to use this stuff and what will benefit me from using it? is it too thick of a weight? bruce u said you use it...what are your thoughts on it...my car is mostly a street driven car btw...

 

[motorhead]

I, like salvage and bruce, use straight up Valvoline in my Buick. 20w50 to be exact. Why? 1) I haven't an external oil cooler on the car any longer. 2) It is arguably the last of the pure conventional oils. Most modern "conventional" oils have some level of synthetic component. Not the Big V.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I switched over to 5w30 in the winter for those cold as heck start ups in and out of the garage.

 

[Razor]

Application..application..

Big difference between the power levels of a 13-14 second Buick and a 10-11 second Buick. You guys in the slower lane can use the 89 cent oil at discount.

Stand by my guns here..when I see the indy teams, nascar, prostock switch to the 89 cent oil...then I'll reconsider. Until then do as you want with your motor fleet vehicle, delivery vehicle, semi, whatever

And I hear complaints about 4 dollar quarts..thats cheap..price the redline, amsoil, royal purple, etc...8-12 bucks a quart.

My car sips the best..and drips the best