RamChargers Dual Fan Gn Adapter
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BRAD_PADGETT
Well-Known Member
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- Jan 22, 2004
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I would try casperselectronics.com. Give them a call. Brad
We used to make that part, but I wouldn't recommend using it on your GN. Originally, it was a part that was spec'd out by Ramchargers as a low cost alternative to adding relays. It had occasionally given people problems since the factory single relay would run both fans with it.
We also made a relay setup for plug-and-play to those fans. I'd recommend that part (PN 109069) for your application.
John
We also made a relay setup for plug-and-play to those fans. I'd recommend that part (PN 109069) for your application.
John
Mike Licht
I was here first
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
- Messages
- 4,642
We have them in stock.
Mike
Mike
GNVenom said:
John. There are so many threads on these things that it makes my head spin. Is this like black magic or the dark arts or alchemy or something?
I am still trying to figure this out.
Is this correct:
The factory set up:
black/red wire going from low speed relay to the fan resistor.
pink/black wire going from high speed relay directly to fan.
black wire going from ground to fan.
Then, there is two generations of dual fan plugs?
The Valeo fans each have three wires; one green for power, one yellow for power, and one black for ground.
1st genertation dual fan plug:
black/red wire going from low speed relay to one power wire on each fan.
pink/black wire going from high speed relay not used.
black wire going from ground to one ground wire on each fan.
2nd genertation dual fan plug:
black/red wire going from low speed relay to one power wire on each fan.
pink/black wire going from high speed relay to one power wire on each fan.
black wire going from ground to one ground wire on each fan.
I will now attempt to attach three drawings...
I guess the bottom line is that the factory relays, while aged 20 years, have a propensity to fail under load when using them to power a modern, twin fan system. Remember, the relays fitted to the mid 80's cars were not sealed from the weather, causing accelerated degradation do to weather, moisture, salt in the atmosphere, etc. GM built our cars with these relays and at the time, they used "gorilla snot" sealant to act as a vapor barrier to the electrical connections. Not what you'd call a long-term fix to a problem. Eventially the sealant hardens, cracks, and lets in moisture and all that other bad stuff that causes electircal resistance.
When they fail, they typically overheat either A) the relay connector, B) the relay itself, or C) the 3-way connector that attaches to the OEM fan. Also, that OEM resistor that was used to feed the low speed circuit, was actually a heater that, when splashed with road water, would crack like glass. Bad design, but should last for 12,000 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first...
In a perfect world, they should and would work without excessive resistance causing the overheating condition. The problem with elevated electrical contact points is the "diminishing return" of electrons...the hotter they get, the more resistance the pick up, then get hotter, then even more resistance - you get the scenario.
So, IMPO, a secondary relay is a necessity. Especially a modern one, with attachments to the battery source, with new wiring, terminals, <SEALED>, and designed to live.
Hope this puts the explanation on the board!
John
When they fail, they typically overheat either A) the relay connector, B) the relay itself, or C) the 3-way connector that attaches to the OEM fan. Also, that OEM resistor that was used to feed the low speed circuit, was actually a heater that, when splashed with road water, would crack like glass. Bad design, but should last for 12,000 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first...
In a perfect world, they should and would work without excessive resistance causing the overheating condition. The problem with elevated electrical contact points is the "diminishing return" of electrons...the hotter they get, the more resistance the pick up, then get hotter, then even more resistance - you get the scenario.
So, IMPO, a secondary relay is a necessity. Especially a modern one, with attachments to the battery source, with new wiring, terminals, <SEALED>, and designed to live.
Hope this puts the explanation on the board!
John
And oddly, the wire in C (ground) is the most efficient wire in the loom. It's only about 2 ft. long, 12 gage, and goes directly to a ground bolt.
The others are maybe 3 ft long, go thru relays, thru another 3 ft of wire, share fuselinks etc.
Great for one fan though.
The others are maybe 3 ft long, go thru relays, thru another 3 ft of wire, share fuselinks etc.
Great for one fan though.
TurboJoe3.8
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2003
- Messages
- 831
Listen to John, he knows what he is talking about.
I had installed the Ramchargers dual fans with their plug and dis-regarded all the good advice about the extra load it would put to the factory wiring. i even felt the wiring at the fans when they were running to see if they were hot and everything felt ok. Well, after a few hundred miles of driving my GN, the fans quit altogether. After doing some trouble shooting, I discovered that both factory relays had melted down from the heat from the load from the fans. I ordered John's dual relay wiring harness, replaced the factory relays (had a really tough time seperating them they were so melted!)and after the install, the fans work great again, even after a few more hundred miles!
Valuable lesson learned!!! :wink:
I had installed the Ramchargers dual fans with their plug and dis-regarded all the good advice about the extra load it would put to the factory wiring. i even felt the wiring at the fans when they were running to see if they were hot and everything felt ok. Well, after a few hundred miles of driving my GN, the fans quit altogether. After doing some trouble shooting, I discovered that both factory relays had melted down from the heat from the load from the fans. I ordered John's dual relay wiring harness, replaced the factory relays (had a really tough time seperating them they were so melted!)and after the install, the fans work great again, even after a few more hundred miles!
Valuable lesson learned!!! :wink:
Does the low speed fan relay turn off when the high speed relay turns on with the factory circuit?
If the low speed fan stays on then can't the fans be split with one on the low speed circuit and one on the high speed circuit. Do many of the chips turn on the high speed circuit continuously any ways?
If the low speed fan stays on then can't the fans be split with one on the low speed circuit and one on the high speed circuit. Do many of the chips turn on the high speed circuit continuously any ways?
The chip does not control any high speed operation. It strictly controls low speed operation and high speed is done externally.
If you run only one fan for low speed operation, you'll move less air across the radiator than the OEM fan and also, you'll block off half of the radiator with the "non moving" fan. Not a good scenario. Remember, the dual fans are each individually smaller, hence less CFM-capable, than the single larger OEM fan, but together, flow more CFM.
Actually running both on high speed all the time will present the best scenario in keeping the engine cooler. That's the way we build the relay harnesses for the F body fan conversions and also the SPAL conversions.
If you run only one fan for low speed operation, you'll move less air across the radiator than the OEM fan and also, you'll block off half of the radiator with the "non moving" fan. Not a good scenario. Remember, the dual fans are each individually smaller, hence less CFM-capable, than the single larger OEM fan, but together, flow more CFM.
Actually running both on high speed all the time will present the best scenario in keeping the engine cooler. That's the way we build the relay harnesses for the F body fan conversions and also the SPAL conversions.
GNVenom said:
Thanks for your reply, John.
Point taken, the OEM 20 year old relays are crap and they are not sufficient enough to power the Ramchargers/Valeo/Dodge dual fans.
Now, about my drawings. Were they correct?
I also heard that one of the fans is larger / more powerful then the other one. Is this correct?
Please advise-
