Reverse Cooling! Can we do it?

[Buick Beginner]

Gentlemen,
As you know the LS1 equipped cars have a coolant system which circulates the coolant backwards of conventional systems. The coolant leaves the radiator and flows into the intake and heads first, then down through the block. Now, I know there are at least 2 or 3 components that are required for this. Namely, the water pump and the thermostat. Now, does anyone or has anyone produced a reverse flow cooling system for the Turbo Buicks? The advantages are obvious! If no one is doing it, does anyone think it's feasible to do? Talk to me - BB

 

[Vendor Defendor]

maybe im stupid, but what would happen if you flipped everything up side down? i havent done anythin with the cooling system of my LC2 but the 350 in my el camino i know i could take the water pump apart (and possibly flip the cooling fins so they rotate backwards??? ) abd the thermostat on the car fit in either way...

i could be way off and making a fool out of my self.. but hey thought i would throw it out there...

-neil

 

[bruce]

Great in theory, and works well in the SBC engines.
But, the SBC is much different then the Buicks.

There are some that claim the Buick cooling system is more like the SFC as far as flow rates, and coolant passageways.

I've gone more the route that Evans suggests, like with raising the pump speed. Thou minus his actual coolant.

 

[Two Lane]

Smokey Yunick

Smokey Yunick was the pioneer (and patent holder) of reverse-flow cooling on the SBC motors, which quickly became the standard for use with NASCAR motors. Moroso became the primary supplier of the necessary hardware.

Ahhhh, Smokey, we surely do miss ya!

 

[The Radius Kid]

Re: Smokey Yunick

Originally posted by Two Lane
Smokey Yunick was the pioneer (and patent holder) of reverse-flow cooling on the SBC motors, which quickly became the standard for use with NASCAR motors. Moroso became the primary supplier of the necessary hardware.

Ahhhh, Smokey, we surely do miss ya!

Yup.

 

[Nashty]

Originally posted by Vendor Defendor
what would happen if you flipped everything up side down?

I'm going to modify my car to pull coolant from the rear of the engine instead of the front by flipping the intake around. I plan on removing the bypass and drilling a small hole in the thermostat to let some water "bypass" internally. If I have cooling problems, I'll do a four corner cooling mod by tapping the intake to pull water from the rear intake (now up front on my car). While this isn't reverse cooling, it is a step towards better cooling.

To do reverse cooling as you mentioned would create some problems in flow restriction as the water path in the pump is sculpted to encourage flow in the stock direction. Reversing the pump fins would create reverse flow but at a diminished rate. You would also be pumping water up through the radiator (higher head than normal flow) so you would have some pressure issues.

Good thinking. Hopefully the four corner idea is something useful to you. Heat management is where its at for a turbo car.

 

[Cakes]

Not to be a jerk or anything but the LS1 has a conventional cooling system (i.e. heads last). The LT1 (1992-1996 Corvettes, 1993-1997 F-bodies) have a reverese cooling system (i.e. Heads first). I have seen aftermarket kits to add a reverse cooling system to the LS1 engine and it has been reported that just by doing this resulted in 25 HP gain! Not bad if you ask me!

 

[Buick Beginner]

My Bad

O.K. - I thought it was the LS1, maybe it was the LT1. Thanks. Good responces, thanks guys. I just dont have the research and development facilities to "invent" a reverse cooling system for our cars, but I wish someone with the proper resources would look into it. - BB

 

[soonergn]

Yeah, Smokey was the MAN! What I don't understand is, since we can all see the advantages, why isn't this the standard of the industry? Maybe I just haven't thought about this from a manufacturers point of view.

 

[The Radius Kid]

Originally posted by soonergn
Yeah, Smokey was the MAN! What I don't understand is, since we can all see the advantages, why isn't this the standard of the industry? Maybe I just haven't thought about this from a manufacturers point of view.

Exactly.Our cooling systems were designed to handle a stock engine,not a high H/P one[ie.,heavy mods].

 

[turbofish38]

Hey guys, Its funny how you mention Smokey and reverse flow cooling. Anyway if you have a copy of The Buick Free Spirit Power Manual which was published back in 1980 if you turn to pages81 and 82 there are two pictures which show Smokeys improved cooling set up for the V-6. Instead of reverse flow he is taking water directly from the front of the cylinder heads. Apparently the stock system does not remove the heat and coolant effectivly enough and by doing it this way more coolant is removed from the heads there by improving cooling effiency and maintaining even temps across the combustion chambers. There is also a better explaination starting on page 63. Eric Fisher

 

[Buick Beginner]

Found a good article

This article looks to be very informative: http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt1_cool.html . Apparently there is much more than meets the eye with the RF cooling system. - BB

 

[JDEstill]

Dang, wish I had a copy of that. Think you could scan those pages for us Eric?

John

 

[turbofish38]

I wish I could. I dont have a scanner or anyway but to fax it. Give me a fax number and I'll send a copy on the companies dime. Or maybe someone like b4black can scan it. Its the entire chapter on the cooling section. Thanks Eric

 

[S10xGN]

Originally posted by Nashty
I plan on removing the bypass and drilling a small hole in the thermostat to let some water "bypass" internally.

I can tell you, this mod will create NO problems as long as the thermostat is drilled (I used [4] 3/16" holes). The bypass port in the front cover threads nicely to 1/4" NPT, and it really cleans up the front of the motor getting rid of that 90° hose!

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by S10xGN
I can tell you, this mod will create NO problems as long as the thermostat is drilled (I used [4] 3/16" holes). The bypass port in the front cover threads nicely to 1/4" NPT, and it really cleans up the front of the motor getting rid of that 90° hose!

Changing water pump pulley to INCREASE flow, in addition to that above even helps more.
Yep, just like on the Evans sight....

 

[Sinful6]

But once the water is up to temp, I don't see an advantage with the reverse flow because of said implication.

 

[Buick Beginner]

Evans Coolant

While we're on the subject what's the deal with the Evans PPG Coolant? On the Evans website it sounds like their coolant is the solution to pre-detonation? Has anyone tryed it? I'm curious if it really will help. - BB

 

[Sagecoach]

In reply to your origional question about anyone building a Buick v-6 with reverse cooling: Jim Ruggles built one for Jim D'Alessandro back in 1994.Went 7.61 at 179 mph. Don't know why the concept didn't catch on.

 

[Nashty]

Is there anything in the water jackets to prevent water from just coming right into the block and then up to the head and out? It would seem to me that a reverse cooled 4 corner cooling would be the way to go.

I have a smaller WP pulley but also have a smaller crank pulley for clearance issues (steering rack) in the way. I have the Evans smaller diameter pulley on my GN. It is no bigger than the minor diameter of your stock pulley, it's little. My only problem with that is the pilot hole is too big so I had to wrap tape around the pump nipple till it was as big as the hole in the pulley so it was centered.

Russ, thanks for the answer, I'm proceeding in that direction. You talk about a clean motor, it looks practically naked like that. I'll have some pictures I'll send you next week. Thanks for your help!

Roger