Rockers dont rock

[87ttypeV8]

well my car broke down this morning... full of gas, sounded fine the whole way

then it dies as i am coming to a stop at a light

it wont start but is revving pretty high for starting, like there is no resistance... so i check the fuses, think maybe could be the cam or crank sensor and have no idea... then i pull the passenger side valve cover and try to start the car.. nothing under there moves and all the rockers are at the same height... not good

so what i am wondering is would this problem be from the timing chain? the cam breaking in some way? every push rod not working for some reason?

i am thinking timing chain but just wondering
my car has been making a loud ticking noise that my mechanic said he thought was either the timing chain tensioner or the cam bearings but i dont think the cam bearings would cause this

well any input helps

thank you

 

[Hawaiian Turbo]

Sounds like the timing chain let go.

 

[87ttypeV8]

thats what i am thinking

i tore everything down to the waterpump and crank pulley... need to get an air compressor over here i think

i took off the rocker covers and a few push rods are slightly bent... if i put the tops together the bottom of them dont line up
this doesnt seem good...

havent pulled the intake yet as i am just sick of working on this car.... more work than fun in this thing

well any input is good... only 2 push rods were bent and they were both on the drivers side... does anyone think pulling the head is in need? i just did the headgaskets maybe 6 months ago


and 1 quick question... since i just put new gaskets on the turbo... do i need to replace them all or what? i am broke and would like to save money if possible... but if there is a chance they will leak... i will just splurge for some new ones

thank you

 

[Hawaiian Turbo]

Bent pushrods when the timing chain broke is an indication the piston's hit the valves. I would pull the head. As far as the turbo gaskets, I'd inspect and if they look good, reuse.

 

[87ttypeV8]

thank you for the reply...

what is all involved with a timing chain break?

should i pull the cam out and inspect?
new lifters?
i will have to do new pushrods as well... should i get stock ones or hardened or what?
i will have to pull the pan i imagine to clean out all the debris.
new gaskets all the way around i am sure...
does anything else get messed up with this?
i will clean out the oil pick up... chang oil filter of course..


where should all of this stuff be purchased as well?
who sells the best timing chains.... should i go double roller?
what about if i need a new cam... where should i get that at?
ahhh this is overwhelming

 

[Hawaiian Turbo]

Depends how far you want to go. I wouldn't pull the cam or lifters, just inspect installed. I would use the stock pushrods. Pull the pan to clean the nylon debris and pick up screen. Double roller. Don't know where you'd go but your local store should have most of the parts,except the pushrods.

This is just my person opinion.I'd get plenty others and pick the one that best suits you.

 

[turbodave231]

Pull your front cover and install a new timing set. Don't spend the money on a double roller, just a good american made standard set. Buy the roller thrust bearing and a new chain dampner from the local GM dealer and throw the stock button/spring away.

After installing a new chain run a compression check.
If you are lucky you didn't bend any valves. It doesn't sound good, based on your description, but it never hurts to try.

Pull your oil pan off and clean out the junk left over from the stock timing gears.

If you have bent valves, take the heads over to Chuck at Best Machine on Van Dyke. Chuck isn't cheap, but he does outstanding work. Chuck uses a Serdi seat and guide machine which is the best machine in the business!

Tell Chuck to just dust the deck surfaces enough to clean them up. He knows what to do.....he'd done that alot for me on my stock motor.

 

[scottyb]

I'm confused. You say all the rockers are the same height. How can that happen?

 

[onefastjackass]

Originally posted by scottyb
I'm confused. You say all the rockers are the same height. How can that happen?

If the pushrods are bent far enough then none of the rockers would be pushed by the cam.

 

[scottyb]

Originally posted by onefastjackass
If the pushrods are bent far enough then none of the rockers would be pushed by the cam.

Then they are REALLY bent!

 

[87ttypeV8]

yeah dont know why alll the rockers are same height... not good... only 2 pushrods are bent but soo slightly that if i put the tops of them together... the bottoms are off maybe 1/4" but just not perfect... couldve been like that before i dont know...

i havent had time to work on the car lately but will be tearing down a little more today... at least intake off...

i wouldnt like to put it all back together to find if i have a bent valve... isnt their an easier way??

thanks for all the replys and shall keep posting

 

[MeanBuicks]

You can run a cylinder leakdown test but you'll need the gauges and a compressor for that.

Best of luck there. I recently went through that very routine. Had 5 bent valves and it died at an idle.

 

[Marc87GN]

I think after reading a few of these stories, I'm going to change the timing chain this winter even though I have less than 51K miles. It seems like it creates more work if you wait until it breaks.

 

[GNFURY]

it creates WAY more work if you wait for it to break. I think every guy that ever buys a turbo regal should immediately inspect the timing chain. If the stocker with the bull**** nylon gears is still in there.....CHANGE IT ASAP. It is not a matter of if, but WHEN it goes, it may cost you alot of money that would be much better spent on more mods

 

[Marc87GN]

How much is a regular timing chain and where can we get one? I would like to have it in case I get some time and I will just change it. I sent my new alternator back last week and the car has been sitting for over a week and it's still not on the way back. I could have used this time to replace the timing chain if I had one.

 

[GNFURY]

the chain is like under 30 bucks, and the new cam button I think is 15 bucks. REEEEEEEEEL cheap insurance.

check here: http://www.ramchargers.com/cgi-bin/...rfnbr=25828&cgmenbr=541&cat1=25468&cat2=25818

that cam button is what you want. Although, that price is reeel steep on that site for the timing chain(you don't really need a double roller) Get one from your local parts store, as long as the gears are not nylon. You will want to get a new tensioner from the dealer too.

 

[87ttypeV8]

ok tried to tear down the motor some more but i dont have a air compressor... is there any other way to get that crank bolt out!?

very hard...
well i got the intake off and DS cylinder head...

the cam looks to be in good shape but at the tip of the lobes, it appears to be kinda a darker color slightly like it has some wear... no scratches though... is there any way to tell what type of cam it is? markings anywhere? i plan on pulling it out once i get the timing cover off at least to inspect the cam... i would like to put an aftermarket one in as i have no idea what is in there right now... maybe ill be able to tell if the timing chain has nylon teeth still on it...

as for the head... i took that off and the valves look to be perfect... no indents on the piston
however there are smooth spots on the piston kinda... like the #1 piston is all full of soot and carbon id imagine with a smooth spot smaller than the size of a dime... is this normal from the plug?

now that i have this head off will i have to get a new headgasket set?

i would like to also paint the heads while they are off... what prep is required and basically how do you do it? i know tape off the top and all that but how do you degrease them and clean them prior to painting? and what color looks the best on them.. i was thinking a dull silver or something? just any high temp paint will work? how many coats...

 

[87ttypeV8]

oh and 1 more thing... what about putting head studs on while everything is apart... how much do they help?
i know they are prolly like 100$ or so but just wondering what the benefits are... i currently have ARP bolts and the felpro headgaskets which i think will need replacing as well... what is a good one to go with that should last me some time!?

 

[Doug Jacobson]

For your questions in the last 2 posts.

Some cams are marked on the end as to what they are, the back end that is still kinda hard to make out if you don't know the brand, it's prolly a stocker. If you look to upgrade I'd go fro a 208 (which I have in my car) or a 204-214 (which I have in my other car)

The cneters of the pistons tend to be cleaner at times, if some oil got in the cylinder it helps to clean them alot.

Yes you will at least need a new HG for that side, and a new intake set.

Clean the heads as best you can, get some engine paint in the color you desire, (I like black) Silver or AL color make it look like your an Alunimun head wanna- be in my opinion

I have Head studs on my good car and bolts on the other, Studs are a PITA if you need to yank a head on the passenger side. Keep the bolts you have they are great, just torque them to 75 lb.ft. Instead of the 65 that is recomended by ARP, plus use Teflon lube on the threads.

Hope I helped, Doug

 

[87ttypeV8]

yes thank you...

just a few questions now on the cleaning...

what do you use on the head to clean them? just some engine degreaser and a scrub brush?

what about to clean the pistons? just some gasoline and a wire brush? really have no idea and dont want to damage/contaminate anything.