Spoolup Issues!!!

[turbocody]

hey guys, i have been trying different methods of boost control and i did have the ATR needle(bleeder) type device and i would get boost creep and i could not turn the boost down past 18psi with my HD actuator. so i then just bypassed the bleeder and Y-type pluming and just looped the compressor to the actuator. and i now get real slow spoolup but i do not get boost creep. what do you guys think? go to a ball & seat type device or and electric Boost controller,etc. my track times sucked last night,i slowed down 2 tenths.could this be the cause? any input would be nice

Cody

 

[GrndNatnl]

Bump.... bringing this topic back since I'm in question of this too.

Does not using the wastegate solenoid, and just connecting boost line from the turbo to the actuator cause more lag?

It's more solid boost level this way without creep or spike, but for some reason it feels like it lags. Why is this?

 

[UNGN]

Cody, go back to a stock actuator, y hose with a restrictor. A HD Actuator is a race only piece unless you have a huge wastegate puck/hole.

A stock actuator that has been made adjustable can be adjusted from 14-23 psi. The HD would be from 18-30

 

[87GNcospg]

i have the ramchargers boost controller. it works great. my car is all stock except for the controller and a duttweiler neck on my intercooler. after the boost controller was installed i notcied a difference in spool up time. it spooled up faster. i read a review on the controller in an online magazine before i purchased it. i dont remember where i found the article though. they tested on a t type with a TA-49,injectors and other normal things. they said that the boost controller made the TA-49 spool just as fast as the tiny little stocker, if not faster. im not sure why it would spool faster but it sure seems like it does. it holds boost where you want it too just like an expensive $400 controller would. for $150 its a great deal. you should also purchase the dual solenoid for the controller. its another $30. it just gives the controller a bigger range of psi to play with.

 

[GrndNatnl]

So utilizing the boost solenoid does reduce lag? How does it act in order to do this?

I dont have a boost controller or anything yet. Just the adjustable actuator, which I'm using by itself at the moment. With the solenoid I get a little to much spike, but it came up like lightning. Thats what I liked.

Any suggestions? How is the BstC controller wired in? Is it best to run the dual-solenoid setup with it on stock setup car?

 

[scottyb]

Originally posted by GrndNatnl
So utilizing the boost solenoid does reduce lag? How does it act in order to do this?

I dont have a boost controller or anything yet. Just the adjustable actuator, which I'm using by itself at the moment. With the solenoid I get a little to much spike, but it came up like lightning. Thats what I liked.

Any suggestions? How is the BstC controller wired in? Is it best to run the dual-solenoid setup with it on stock setup car?

To reduce lag, it "vents" the pressure sooner than chip control does, therefore the WG stays closed longer.

I had the same issue with spike, but I have somewhat more control over it with the BSTC. Here is how I set mine up.

1. I adjusted the WG arm so I get ~14psi with it looped tuner style like you do.
2. I adjusted the BSTC so that it requires about 90% throttle before it kicks in. In other words, up to 90% throttle, it is off and makes 14 lbs, then I mat it and it goes to ~20 when the BSTC comes on. I did this for several reasons. First, I run only street tires, so 20 off the line is a tire roaster. Second, I want to make sure that the alky has a moment to "get flowing well". Third, since the ECM is already in PE mode beyond 75% throttle, it basically is already assuming WOT. As the boost approaches 14 psi, the alky fires, boost starts to settle, then I mat it. I'm very happy with it.

Wiring is easy, all under the dash.

I am currently experimenting with 2 solenoids because I want to keep the 14 lbs base, but want ~22 reliably and one solenoid won't get that much adjustment.

 

[GrndNatnl]

Thanks for the info. Makes more sense now. The only thing that still confuses me is if the spoolup is faster when the wastegate stays closed longer, it should still spool fast if it's looped. I have it set tuner style for 14-15 psi. That means it stays closed until it reaches that point, then it opens. Really no difference in operation, until it comes time for the ECM to 'adjust' the boost itself.

 

[azgn]

tuner style has boost pushing on the WG at all times, so it can leak

the best method with tuner style is the Dawes device (basically a check valve) that allows no boost thru until a certain level is reached, thus the WG stays shut

a TA-49 should spool just fine with the stock setup and the boost should be steady

 

[Sinful6]

Originally posted by azgn
tuner style has boost pushing on the WG at all times, so it can leak

the best method with tuner style is the Dawes device (basically a check valve) that allows no boost thru until a certain level is reached, thus the WG stays shut

a TA-49 should spool just fine with the stock setup and the boost should be steady

Or one of my QSBC setups. Especially if you want to adjust it from the drivers seat.

email: dcc@japan.com


-DC

 

[2QUIK6]

With it looped straight from the turbo to the actuator, "tuner style" as soon as positive pressure, boost, is produced, that pressure starts opening the wastegate puck via the actuator, hence the "lag" you're experiencing.
The solenoid bleeds off that boost pressure in the hose going from the turbo to the WG actuator, thus allowing it to spool quickly. The BSTC commander controls the stock WG solenoid by bleeding off 100% of the pressure until a pre-set trigger is reached, such as a certain TPS voltage independent of what the ECM is trying to do, therefore allowing you to spoolup a little quicker.
I had an ATR bleeder valve for a while, seemed to spool about as fast as the BSTC commander now does, but much better adjustability from right within the cockpit.

If your boost is spiking alot with the solenoid, I'd suspect a bad solenoid. Doesn't hurt to have a spare laying around so I'd order a new one and try it out, if it still spikes, you'll have that spare, but that would be the first place to start looking for the cause.
Other reason could be a free-er flowing DP installed and you did not enlarge the WG puck hole.

 

[azgn]

I see no advantage to adjusting boost from the drivers seat......

unless you like to run around on less boost than your tune/fuel can handle

the "grainger valve" type check valves are generally no good for adjusting boost over a wide range (this is what I am talking about and so is sinful6)

what they are good for is holding the gate closed until you want it to open

racer types set it at launch boost and forget it

(bear in mind my perspective is race oriented and my boost is never under 25 or so and I use HD actuator.....results may vary)

 

[QuickWrench]

Originally posted by UNGN
...A stock actuator that has been made adjustable can be adjusted from 14-23 psi.

...unless you chop the actuator arm a bit. Mine will adjust from 12-30+ easily.

Originally posted by UNGN
...Cody, go back to a stock actuator, y hose...

As usual, UNGN is reading my mind. Keep it simple.

I've got to be honest here: What's with the trend of everyone hacking into the boost control setup? Why not just ensure that all of your sensors, solenoids, hoses, etc. are up to snuff, and enjoy the car? My car rides, drives, and spools like a stocker, and I'll bet not too many others have gone faster with my setup.

...just my opinion. Good luck with whatever you're into, guys.

 

[scottyb]

Originally posted by QuickWrench
...unless you chop the actuator arm a bit. Mine will adjust from 12-30+ easily.

As usual, UNGN is reading my mind. Keep it simple.

I've got to be honest here: What's with the trend of everyone hacking into the boost control setup? Why not just ensure that all of your sensors, solenoids, hoses, etc. are up to snuff, and enjoy the car? My car rides, drives, and spools like a stocker, and I'll bet not too many others have gone faster with my setup.

...just my opinion. Good luck with whatever you're into, guys.

Everybody's use and needs are different, and some of us drive our cars daily on street tires because we like driving our cars. We have reasons for the chips, injectors, turbos, and IC mods we use, and this doesn't always mean we want the best times at the track on slicks. In-car adjustability is NOT the primary reason for my use of the BSTC, but it is a nice bonus. My chip control wasn't cutting it, but my chip has other features I must have. The BSTC solved my issues and gave me more fexibility without excessive expense.

 

[GrndNatnl]

Originally posted by 2QUIK6
If your boost is spiking alot with the solenoid, I'd suspect a bad solenoid. Doesn't hurt to have a spare laying around so I'd order a new one and try it out, if it still spikes, you'll have that spare, but that would be the first place to start looking for the cause.
Other reason could be a free-er flowing DP installed and you did not enlarge the WG puck hole.

The solenoid is brand new, as of a couple weeks ago. Still spikes a little.

I did install a two-piece style DP in place of the stocker, but I didnt really "port" the elbow out any. I polished it up a little, but thats about it. Didnt really notice any increase in spike after installing it though. Not a large enough difference to have any effect on the boost I guess.

 

[2QUIK6]

Originally posted by GrndNatnl
The solenoid is brand new, as of a couple weeks ago. Still spikes a little.

I did install a two-piece style DP in place of the stocker, but I didnt really "port" the elbow out any. I polished it up a little, but thats about it. Didnt really notice any increase in spike after installing it though. Not a large enough difference to have any effect on the boost I guess.

One other thing I can think of is make sure there is some tension in the WG adjustable arm you have. If it's too loose the boost will flutter and sometimes can get a spike, so make sure there is some tension in the arm when at rest, but not alot, could be over tight also.

 

[GrndNatnl]

Thanks for the tidbits. I'll set it back up for using the solenoid again, and see how it runs. I just put a newer adjustable actuator on. My old one seemed to develop a weak spring condition, and it wouldnt let me run hardly any boost at all. Havent used it with the solenoid yet since. I'll back the rod off a few turns and reconnect the solenoid to baseline and adjust from there.