I think I'm gonna try this, seems to be working for others. Anyone besides Bamford doing this? Any downsides at all to this setup? (besides cost) I'm going to try maybe a stroker crank, supposed to help bottom end. If anyone is doing this, hows reliability on the street? I will have all 4 steel caps, no girdle.
Steel crank in a stock block
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Steel crank as well as steel caps without the girdle will still break the block.
You can still walk the steel caps. Next best bet is to have the caps dowel pinned, but still no guarantee to eliminate break age as quite a few guys have broken steel capped blocks.
Best bet is the girdle with stock caps. No walk problems and no broken blocks to date.
You can still walk the steel caps. Next best bet is to have the caps dowel pinned, but still no guarantee to eliminate break age as quite a few guys have broken steel capped blocks.
Best bet is the girdle with stock caps. No walk problems and no broken blocks to date.
I don't think anyone running a steel crank has broken a block either. After talking to a couple well respected engine builders, it seems the steel crank will eliminate some of the reliability problems with built stock blocks. Both guys I spoke with would not install a girdle. They recommended at least 3 steel caps, and the steel crank. Guys have been 9's on this exact setup, and seem to be holding up. More people have done this than I thought, guess it used to be real popular? Probably when these cranks weren't so expensive.
The basic idea is that the stock crank will flex, thereby going through the oil on the bearing, and causing wear. If you can eliminate the flex, this shouldn't happen. Why would a steel crank break the stock block? The only way that should happen is if you are just flat over-powering it, then yes, the block would probably be the weakest link, but for a 10 second car the steel crank offers more reliability over the stocker, maybe then reducing the amount of maintenance.
The basic idea is that the stock crank will flex, thereby going through the oil on the bearing, and causing wear. If you can eliminate the flex, this shouldn't happen. Why would a steel crank break the stock block? The only way that should happen is if you are just flat over-powering it, then yes, the block would probably be the weakest link, but for a 10 second car the steel crank offers more reliability over the stocker, maybe then reducing the amount of maintenance.
About a grand, up to $1500, depends on what shape its in. I've had tons of guys e mail me with good deals on them (thanks), and for between $1000 and $1500 you can have a ready to go crank. Expensive, yes, but so is rebuilding your motor every year.
I have about 40 passes ranging in the low 10, hi 9 range, 15 to 20 pound launches. I am running a steel crank and caps without a girdle. I cut open the oil filter at each oil change, everything looks good. If you start out with a good build and tune, a stock or steel crank will live in a low 10 hi 9 car.
Dave Bamford
tminer
Not quite normal
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It appears that either a steel crank or girdle will get one to the point of lifting the heads without destroying the block. Isn't it just plain cheaper to go the girdle route, or are there other issues like journal wear and periodic maintenance?
Thanks,
Tom
Thanks,
Tom
turbowrenchhead
Drive like you stole it!
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I am planning on going with a steel crank in the future as well. What I am wondering do I have to go with steel rods too? If you get a stock stroke crank I shoud be able to keep my pistons right? Does it hurt to have a girdle with a steel crank? I already have one on mine and don't think I would get rid of it. I would just leave it on for the extra bit of insurance.
GNVAIR who said with the girdle no broken blocks to date WRONG ! i had a girdle and two steel caps on my old motor and the crank snapped , the piston wedged in the bore and the block was done .the camshft also was in pieces , ....... The girdle however did save the tranny which is worth it in itself . 
turbowrenchhead, you'll have to get new rods and pistons, the journals on the steel cranks are different. I talked to the guy who built Bamfords motor at PTE, and he recommends the steel crank with 4 billet caps, no girdle. Suppose it wouldn't hurt to have it though.
Galoush- what did you do?!?!? Thats some carnage! Did you detonate the hell out of it or what?
Galoush- what did you do?!?!? Thats some carnage! Did you detonate the hell out of it or what?
turbosam6
So Dan Strezo said not to run a girdle??? Hmm..... I certanely dont have the knowledge that he has but as far as I know there are no disadvantages to running a girdle except for the cost (i.e. cost of the girdle and the machineing involved) My new mill has a steel crank with a girdle from RJC and stock caps with forged pistons and rods. The only thing I see breaking is the block.... but I doubt that will happen. Either way you choose good luck. Many have gone fast with both setups.
So Dan Strezo said not to run a girdle??? Hmm..... I certanely dont have the knowledge that he has but as far as I know there are no disadvantages to running a girdle except for the cost (i.e. cost of the girdle and the machineing involved) My new mill has a steel crank with a girdle from RJC and stock caps with forged pistons and rods. The only thing I see breaking is the block.... but I doubt that will happen. Either way you choose good luck. Many have gone fast with both setups.
L
LikeMy6
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AintGoinSlo,
have you found anyone willing to sell you a Crank yet? I know of a complete Billet rotating assembly that might be for sale. It will fit in the stock 109 block no prob. It consists of a new Scat Billet Crank 3.40" stroke with narrow journals,production width 6.5"length Oliver off-center Billet Rods, JE forged 8.5:1 .030" pistons set up for standard 109 deck height, JW flexplate, BHJ steel balancer. Rods are hung and assembly is internaly balanced. Fresh from the machine shop. It will probably all be sold as a package. for around $3000 great deal considering the Scat crank NOW sells for $2500 not $2200! just got their new catalog 2 months ago. Also a 9 month wait!
hth
Frank
have you found anyone willing to sell you a Crank yet? I know of a complete Billet rotating assembly that might be for sale. It will fit in the stock 109 block no prob. It consists of a new Scat Billet Crank 3.40" stroke with narrow journals,production width 6.5"length Oliver off-center Billet Rods, JE forged 8.5:1 .030" pistons set up for standard 109 deck height, JW flexplate, BHJ steel balancer. Rods are hung and assembly is internaly balanced. Fresh from the machine shop. It will probably all be sold as a package. for around $3000 great deal considering the Scat crank NOW sells for $2500 not $2200! just got their new catalog 2 months ago. Also a 9 month wait!
hth
Frank
FreddieWilliams
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galoush,
Was that a rolled fillet crank you had snap?
Most of the snapped cranks are later found to be NA cranks installled in turbo motors.
Just curious.
Was that a rolled fillet crank you had snap?
Most of the snapped cranks are later found to be NA cranks installled in turbo motors.
Just curious.
turbowrenchhead
Drive like you stole it!
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I don't understand why I would have to get another set of custom pistons. If you have the stock stroke and the steel rods are the same length it should work. Or is there a possiblity of getting custom steel rods so I don't have to change the pistons?
It'll depend on the rods, as you say. Most steel cranks are "wide journal", which means the rod is another .050" or so wider than a stock rod. In turn, most wide journal rods available are longer than stock. The most common rods are 6.300" or 6.500" long. If you either find a supplier for 5.950" steel rods, or find a narrow journal crank and use stock rods (ack!) you can reuse your pistons.
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