TA Buick V-6 engine history/status

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Nick Micale

Tech Advisor
Staff member
Joined
May 26, 2001
Messages
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Since this project has been in the works for 5 years, I thought it would be appropiate to summarize how and what is happening, and to provide an accurate picture of this project.

The first public comments and info gathering was in 1999 at the GSCA event in Columbus. Mike and I polled many racers about their feelings about a new V-6 block. GM had just recently finished the final run of 25 stage II blocks. The response was good and we went into a serious discussion and planning stage.

During the planning stage, it was determined that it would be easier, cheaper and better if the block would be aluminum. Another benefit is that it could be machined at TA if needed.

After much further discussion and preliminary design, the project design was started in early 2001. It took about a year for design, patterns and casting the first 3 prototype alum blocks. In mid-2002, one of these unmachined blocks was shown in Bowling Green.

In 2002, 2 of the 3 pre-production prototypes were machined [CNC program developed] and fitted with hardware like steel caps, cylinder liners, bolts, etc. In 2003 the machined on-center TA block was shown in BG and delivered to a customer. One of the original castings was cut apart to verify dimensions and the casting process. The other original casting was done in off-center configuration and was evaluated by Ken D., the design team, and used for accessory verification.

Meanwhile the first production run of block [25 units] was begun and delivery started in 2003. A few were shipped around the country to various individuals. Last summer, one was delivered to Ken D., was built [with TA heads], installed in a customer's GN and delivered to him in L.A. Other complete engines have since been finished by TA, and delivered as well. All 25 blocks were sold.

The second run of 40 blocks is now in process and should be ready for delivery this summer. Some have been pre-sold.

Let me voice some of my personal comments about our [ArizonaGN] work with the TA block. We have assembled 2 of these blocks and are working on others. It is designed as a stock "replacement" block.

The design is based upon stage II strength, but with ability to use stock components. We did one alum block with stock crank/rods for a street rod customer.

The TA block comes "fully machined" like most quality aftermarket blocks, BUT proper prep work MUST be done before assembly; deck surfaced, bore or hone cyls, clean and check all holes threaded or not, and so forth.

This is an alum block with steel liners. We have found that general prodction auto machine shops are not familiar or equipped to do the prep work properly. Liners are steel, not cast iron, deck surfacing is cutting steel/alum and needs to have a special machine. So, this is NOT a block you can unbox and build in your back yard.

A quality engine builder will have no problem with this block. Our experience so far shows only a few hours additional work over a used stock block. It also shows less work than most other aftermarket blocks, iron or alum, that we have done over the years.

My personal TA engine is assembled and should have the accessories mounted when on the stand this week Some issues like my custom-made headers not being ready means I have to modify a stock set to fit. Also, we need to do interim "custom" motor mounts until I have the poly ones. Even dealing with the 100+ degree temps, hope it can be running by the 4th of July?

It will be evaluated on the street first. We plan to have lots of data and pics available. Hope this gives a good highlight of the alum block project. Why more of them are not running can be answered partially by saying this an expensive project compared to a regular build. People doing these are making sure everything is done properly, and checking many items to assure this.

We should see and hear about other experiences very soon.
 
Will be glad to just have videos of it here on the road first Jesse!:)

We plan do do some pics during install, and will have someone do video as well, good idea.
 
Originally posted by Nick Micale

During the planning stage, it was determined that it would be easier, cheaper and better if the block would be aluminum. Another benefit is that it could be machined at TA if needed.


Nick,

How much cost savings is the alum block of the S2?

Typically cost if I brought my car in and said replace my 109
with an alum block?


thanks!
 
Nick,your post is more proof that I chose the right guy to do my TA motor.Thanks.

Pat Smith
 
A block just as strong as stage II but can use stock components?

How much will these cost? Or do you have the figures?
 
Check the pricing at taperformance.com.The first run were $3500 I think the price has went up some,at least that is what I heard.Nick would know better than I would if that is true.
 
:confused:

geez they were already a grand over the original price now they've gone up more

wtf ??

theres a difference between making money and flat out ripping people a new one

I still want to know why not get the price back down to earth and sell more of them instead of making it so most cant afford them ?

:rolleyes:
 
Nick- what would a fully assembled TA block with TA heads run aproximately by Arizona Speed- i would like to get a realistic price fully assembled and ready to drop-in. so i will know how much money to get together? A ball-park figure say within $500. would be nice.-Thanks Maybe one price with all stock internals and one with all out aftermarket internals? Also with anything specific to the TA block like headers and engine mounts.
 
Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR
:confused:

geez they were already a grand over the original price now they've gone up more

wtf ??

theres a difference between making money and flat out ripping people a new one

I still want to know why not get the price back down to earth and sell more of them instead of making it so most cant afford them ?

:rolleyes:

Most likley they have enough demand to raise the price. :(
 
Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR
:confused:

geez they were already a grand over the original price now they've gone up more

theres a difference between making money and flat out ripping people a new one

I still want to know why not get the price back down to earth and sell more of them instead of making it so most cant afford them ?
:rolleyes:

Red, you need to bring your thinking into the new century!:)

The initial price of the first run of the TA block was $3495. The machining costs and hardware prices have increased so the new price is now $3895, hardly a grand difference.

As far as "ripping people a new one", check out the new aftermarket Chevy alum small block just released. Price is the same as the TA block.:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by G McCall
Does this new block also have the bearing surface area of stage blocks ?

Not sure what you are asking? If it is "can you use a wide journal crank", yes.

"Nick- what would a fully assembled TA block with TA heads run aproximately by Arizona Speed............[/B] [/QUOTE] 49-blues

If you would contact me direct be phone or e-mail, will be glad to discuss your build and quote.

As far as headers, if you use 14 bolt heads, some modification would be necessary to clear the bottom 3 bolts on each head.

Motor mounts are being done by HR Parts for this block.

We are in the process of finishing a couple TA blocks and there is not much additional machining and finishing time as compared to a stock-block rebuild. Will have more specific pricing in a week or 2
 
I looked up a motown alum sb chevy block last night $3400 and some change

lets see more alum to make it and more machining to do a v8

origially I believe t/a was talking around $2500 for a block then it went up a grand and now even more

search back to around this time last year when everyone kept saying its worth it and more and I stated that they keep saying its worth more then they will raise the price ... well bingo

how about a bunch of you say they are worth more than what the price is now so they wont feel bad busting you open for $5000 a piece for the next batch

They have spent the $ now now like they are going to toss in the towel ...we need some people with balls in the buick crowd to stand up and say enough raping us :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR
I looked up a motown alum sb chevy block last night $3400 and some change ...................origially I believe t/a was talking around $2500 for a block then it went up a grand and now even more .........

..............we need some people with balls in the buick crowd to stand up and say enough raping us :rolleyes:

If you would look further, the Motown block is $3900 with steel caps.

Never was a price published except $3500. The "talking" you heard was guessing from various sources.

You DO have a choice Red, don't purchase one!:D Buy the Chevy.

Hopefully there will be enough buyers over the years to recover the $100K or so development costs? At this point is does not appear to be the "Buick" crowd is the real support this project, but the street rodders, sand rails and other real car enthusiasts.:)
 
I know I have a choice not to buy One even tho I would love to have one :(

around $2800 would be a good retail price and Im sure the demand would jump big time

Im not bashing the block it is a very nice piece and like I said I'd love to have one but geez

I believe it was you that said the heads would retail about the cost of champion heads but I've heard no update on the price of them :confused: so how much are they gonna ask for them and when will they be available for people that cant afford a block to go with them??
 
Hopefully there will be enough buyers over the years to recover the $100K or so development costs? At this point is does not appear to be the "Buick" crowd is the real support this project, but (((("other real car enthusiasts)))))"


Nick, Could you explain what you meant by this?
 
Im guessing retired old farts that have nothing better to do with their $ but spend it on a car :confused:
 
Originally posted by Fuelie600
.............. the real support this project, but (((("other real car enthusiasts)))))"


Nick, Could you explain what you meant by this?

Very simple, the majority of serious inquiries have been from people "outside" the Buick community. The first TA block we did was for a customer in CA. that is installing it in his Chevelle!

Lots of others from non-Buick race cars owners to shop owners looking for light, powerful engines for their projects.
 
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