Total Head cost Differrence ?

C

Charles Young

C Young
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
I have searched and think I know the answer but would appreciate confirmation. When choosing between Champion irons and GN1 aluminum I'm trying to confirm the total required additional parts if you choose aluminum. It seems that other than the cost diff of the heads themselves, the main cost adder of going Al. is that you also have to use different rockers to the tune of around $400. Are thnere other "hidden costs" of going aluminum? Seems with either you would want new lifters and need gaskets, studs, etc. when going from stock heads. What am I missing?

Thanks!!
 
Depending on the heads stock rockers can be used on both. But IMOP if your upgrading heads your going with roller rockers anyways. So IMOP the only cost difference is the head itself. I will always pick alum over iron

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One additional variable:

Going from iron to ported iron, you "may" be able to reuse the push rods.
 
I know many will say it is crazy, not everyone, but i was not planning to go the roller route.


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Well, honestly I overstated a bit by suggesting I have a real plan at this point. Here's where I am...
I had thought about heads previously but decided I didn't really need to spend the money. Then, right after I left the Turbobuick event at Richard's in May I noticed a noise from the motor. I live close by so the week after the event I went back and Asked RC to take a listen. He is fairly certain it is rod knock. So that is my excuse for going ahead and doing some performance upgrades while fixing rod bearings. :):)
I am not trying to build a race car, just a pretty quick street car that goes to test and tune maybe 3-4 times a year. Before the bearing problem it ran pretty consistent in the 7.4 - 7.5 range in the 1/8 with stock block, crank and heads, basic mods in signature. I'd like to make it a consistent high six second, 7ish car without pushing it too much. Having done a fair amount of reading it seems that many folks spend more on parts than they need and for the type power I would be making, the whole roller set up does not seem necessary unless you are really making power and RPM's.
I was thinking ported heads, deciding between AL and iron, and maybe a small cam. Now rereading my own post and one above, I'm thinking probably irons as I would likely never see the real benefit of the aluminum. I was thinking if the added cost of going Al was only say $800 I might go ahead and do that but I wasn't sure about the other "hidden costs". That is kind of where I am. Isn't the whole roller set up a pretty significant cost adder?
Thanks!
 
If I were you, I'd work on my launch. The 60 foot time is where you make it happen with a stock set up. One tenth on the line is worth two at the top end. Work that launch, save your money.

IF you feel you must change, for your objectives, first, I'd start with a new set of valve springs. I'll bet yours are tired.

If you don't think that will help, then get your stock irons ported by a reputable guy, put a mild cam in it, maybe increase your rocker ratio a tiny bit, if possible. With seat time, high 6's, if you're a good driver, but plenty respectable. All probably for less money than a head swap to what you are speaking of.

If you change cams, be sure you match the cam to your torque converter...... Will your transmission handle the increase in HP? You see how quickly this stuff multiplies?

I'm not trying to scare you off, but this is real stuff to consider.

Now, a set of Champion Irons is never a bad idea, but there are guys that can make the stock heads flow pretty damn good for even and/or much less money and down time.

There's absolutely no current reason for you to go with aluminum heads for your current goals. None. Unless you want bragging rights, but no "real" perceptible results.

Good luck.:):)
 
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The cool thing about turbos is they damn near make head mods worth very little.

Alum over iron is less efficient and requires more compression to avoid going backwards. Just slapping on a set of alums on a tired engine won't do anything but save weight (both on the engine and your wallet).


If you have a rod knock, it's going to take a little more than buying a pair of bearing shells. Depending on what you're going to spend on the bottom end, expensive heads needs to be waaaaaaayyyyyy down on the list.
 
When I said "high 6's" I meant mid-low 7's on a stock set up. At least that was all I could muster, but I'm old and feeble..........
 
earlbrown said:
The cool thing about turbos is they damn near make head mods worth very little.

Alum over iron is less efficient and requires more compression to avoid going backwards. Just slapping on a set of alums on a tired engine won't do anything but save weight (both on the engine and your wallet).


If you have a rod knock, it's going to take a little more than buying a pair of bearing shells. Depending on what you're going to spend on the bottom end, expensive heads needs to be waaaaaaayyyyyy down on the list.
Click to expand...


Earl,

"slapping on a set of alums on a tired engine won't do anything but save weight (both on the engine and your wallet)."


I'm wondering why you say Aluminum heads are somehow less expensive than Irons, did I read it wrong? :oops:
 
No disintegrations said:
I don't care what the material is, I like good flowing parts. Why fight with stuff that is a choke point?
Click to expand...

So,

Give the OP all of your secrets that = all the good flow.

Or not.

I'm jus' sayin. ;)

I don't have any, my builder does, though.........
 
Just because something is bigger doens't mean the less big is a 'choke'.


And if you pick up 5% flow and lose 10% in efficiency, that's better?
 
TurboTGuy said:
Earl,

"slapping on a set of alums on a tired engine won't do anything but save weight (both on the engine and your wallet)."


I'm wondering why you say Aluminum heads are somehow less expensive than Irons, did I read it wrong? :oops:
Click to expand...

You read that wrong. New aluminum heads will never be cheaper than heads you already own.


...but who am I to stand between a guy and his 'cool guy' parts.
 
It well known the stock heads need the pocket cleaned up. I call it a choke point . call it bottle neck if you want. (Pop a top! ) Ported irons are fine with me but personally wouldn't leave untouched heads on there. If the engine moves air more easily it makes more power, but the whole thing is a system. All things should be considered. Lots of threads out there.

If a car runs good heads can stay on the car, fine. But if its all torn down, why put bone stock heads back on?
 
Couple comments regarding input above:
Thanks again; I'm now pretty well convinced I will go ported irons when I can. Not looking for "cool guy" parts (gave up on being cool about 40 years ago :)) but, if I am going to have the motor out, have a hard time seeing putting it back with stock heads. As noted above, I def need to work on launch but feel having the extra power that should come with heads and cam will surely make it quicker down the track regardless of my crappy launch.
The comments above are not scaring me off but giving good things for consideration and I do know that there may me more to the "knock" than just bearings will fix but I will remain hopeful til running into something else. Hopefully crank and rods are reusable.
 
Hope bowl porting a set of heads will cost nothing. Once you get the valves out, you'll see just how much flow is there for the taking. It's blatantly obvious there's metal in the way.
 
earlbrown said:
Hope bowl porting a set of heads will cost nothing. Once you get the valves out, you'll see just how much flow is there for the taking. It's blatantly obvious there's metal in the way.
Click to expand...
Earl...I have the how to hotrod your buick book, In the head section it has templates for porting production and stage heads...What's your take on those if you are familiar with them.Thanks
 
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