beginning to hate E85!

[MrMNTTA]

Take a look through this fellas.........to single out E85, or anything for that matter is just plain ridiculous. Big Oil has spent millions and millions of their record earnings in bad press for the ethanol industry to try and prevent the 2007 Energy Bill from getting passed. Well, they didn't succeed. Here's a response to some of the stuff that's going around:

http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/documents/TopTenMythsCornEthanol_000.pdf

And, in case you ever wanted to know, it takes 1851 gallons of water to refine one barrel of oil, as stated by the EPA.

http://media.mgbg.com/wkrg/photos/weather/downloads/Water_Facts.pdf

And lastly, some of you guys are right........the overseas wheat crop was terrible last year, and that's a big reason why corn prices are high since they're turning to corn to make up for the poor wheat crop. Corn's the obvious choice since we had a record corn production year last year.

 

[Hot Air]

Turning sugar beets into E85 is fine with me. I HATE eating beets!
Conrad

 

[86SS86LS]

When ethanol is processed, only the starch in corn is consumed. All of the protein, fat, and minerals remain in the byproduct - distillers grains. The distillers grains are then sold as livestock feed. This offsets millions of bushels of corn that would have otherwise been purchased for feed if the ethanol industry did not exist. So the production of ethanol is really just an intermediate step that does not remove any nutrients from the end product.

The high price of wheat this year is an anomoly, and you can bet that there will be a market correction next year - it is cheap and easy to produce. The cause was more related to shortages elsewhere in the world rather than farmers planting more corn acres.

The price of grains in consumer goods make up a very small portion of the cost. So even if the price of corn doubles, the effect on a box of corn flakes, for example, is a few pennies. Ironically, the higher cost of gas has a more dramatic effect on the price you pay at the grocery store, due to transportation, processing, etc.

 

[Hot Air]

86SS86LS,
Thank you for your comment. I have heard this before but couldn't remember where I heard it. Is there a reference that you can send to me that would bear out what you have written? It would be good to have it to clear the air (no pun intended).
Conrad

 

[MrMNTTA]

When ethanol is processed, only the starch in corn is consumed. All of the protein, fat, and minerals remain in the byproduct - distillers grains. The distillers grains are then sold as livestock feed. This offsets millions of bushels of corn that would have otherwise been purchased for feed if the ethanol industry did not exist. So the production of ethanol is really just an intermediate step that does not remove any nutrients from the end product.

The high price of wheat this year is an anomoly, and you can bet that there will be a market correction next year - it is cheap and easy to produce. The cause was more related to shortages elsewhere in the world rather than farmers planting more corn acres.

The price of grains in consumer goods make up a very small portion of the cost. So even if the price of corn doubles, the effect on a box of corn flakes, for example, is a few pennies. Ironically, the higher cost of gas has a more dramatic effect on the price you pay at the grocery store, due to transportation, processing, etc.

Hallelujah! Finally, someone that understands what's really happening!

 

[fc227]

The only reason why I would use it is because of the 105 octane rating.

 

[86SS86LS]

86SS86LS,
Thank you for your comment. I have heard this before but couldn't remember where I heard it. Is there a reference that you can send to me that would bear out what you have written? It would be good to have it to clear the air (no pun intended).
Conrad

I would guess that you could do a google search of "e85" or "ethanol" and find information to back up what I've said. I've been around agriculture my whole life and have invested in two of our local ethanol plants. It seems that I often find myself in a position to defend the benefits of ethanol to those that are influenced by all of the propoganda that big oil is spreading.

 

[MrMNTTA]

I would guess that you could do a google search of "e85" or "ethanol" and find information to back up what I've said. I've been around agriculture my whole life and have invested in two of our local ethanol plants. It seems that I often find myself in a position to defend the benefits of ethanol to those that are influenced by all of the propoganda that big oil is spreading.

Ditto......my sentiments to a "T"

 

[novaderrik]

When ethanol is processed, only the starch in corn is consumed. All of the protein, fat, and minerals remain in the byproduct - distillers grains. The distillers grains are then sold as livestock feed. This offsets millions of bushels of corn that would have otherwise been purchased for feed if the ethanol industry did not exist. So the production of ethanol is really just an intermediate step that does not remove any nutrients from the end product.

The high price of wheat this year is an anomoly, and you can bet that there will be a market correction next year - it is cheap and easy to produce. The cause was more related to shortages elsewhere in the world rather than farmers planting more corn acres.

The price of grains in consumer goods make up a very small portion of the cost. So even if the price of corn doubles, the effect on a box of corn flakes, for example, is a few pennies. Ironically, the higher cost of gas has a more dramatic effect on the price you pay at the grocery store, due to transportation, processing, etc.

now, how dare you bring facts into such an emotion filled argument? that's just not the right way to go about things..
did anyone point out that the corn used for Ethanol isn't the same corn that gets made into food products for human consumption? most people don't realize that there are two different kinds of corn out there- the kind that they put in the can that you buy at the store and the kind that they feed to cows and pigs to make the beef and pork and bacon we love so much.
they just pick whatever side allows them to get the most outraged and stick with it.

 

[TurboDave]

now, how dare you bring facts into such an emotion filled argument? that's just not the right way to go about things..
did anyone point out that the corn used for Ethanol isn't the same corn that gets made into food products for human consumption? most people don't realize that there are two different kinds of corn out there- the kind that they put in the can that you buy at the store and the kind that they feed to cows and pigs to make the beef and pork and bacon we love so much.
they just pick whatever side allows them to get the most outraged and stick with it.

I think if you actually read my post, you'll notice that I wasn't specific to human corn consumption. Corn is used in thousands of products also including animal feed products, but not just food and feed, thousands of others. Doesn't anybody watch anything on TV except ABC, CBS or NBC?? There's a wealth of info out there.
Ya'll think I'm bashing E85, I'm not, we need it. And I'm not defending the oil industry. I'm bitching because we need E85, but are not ready to produce it from other means, such as cellulosic, but rather corn, which despite what you're being told, is having a dramatic and direct effect on the economy.

 

[Hot Air]

Dave,
All good points. I hate to admit it but Pres Bush did make some sense (even a blind squirrel can find a nut now and again) when he said that ethanol really does need to come from native plants that grow naturally. Maybe we can finally find a good use for weeds. That would be cool!
Conrad

 

[MrMNTTA]

which despite what you're being told, is having a dramatic and direct effect on the economy.

It is not having as dramatic of an effect on the economy as the price of oil is. Not even close.

Read the Wall Street Journal today and it states that gasoline demand is DOWN. Figure that one out.

 

[novaderrik]

I think if you actually read my post, you'll notice that I wasn't specific to human corn consumption. Corn is used in thousands of products also including animal feed products, but not just food and feed, thousands of others. Doesn't anybody watch anything on TV except ABC, CBS or NBC?? There's a wealth of info out there.
Ya'll think I'm bashing E85, I'm not, we need it. And I'm not defending the oil industry. I'm bitching because we need E85, but are not ready to produce it from other means, such as cellulosic, but rather corn, which despite what you're being told, is having a dramatic and direct effect on the economy.

and oil is also used in thousands of products, as well. the price of oil is going up, so don't you think that might also have some sort of effect on the price of anything made out of plastic?
beyond that, the value of our dollar in the world markets is taking a nosedive because of our love for having things we can't afford. if you want to blame the state of our economy and the devaluation of our dollar- which by definition makes everything we buy more expensive- on using a small percentage of our corn crop to make fuel to help offset imported oil consumption, then go right on believing that.

 

[Reggie West]

Have you noticed that Brazil does not have the corn to produce E85 and instead they buy high fructose corn syrup and use that to make it?

Guess where they buy it from exclusively? Archer Daniels Midland.

The economy sucks no matter what Bush says is going on. Material prices have been increasing in every type of business there is. Now that houses have fallen off a cliff people now notice it. The only thing that will help this is the same thing that made them more expensive, the free market economy.

It would be nice if demand for gasoline actually decreased but there has to be alternatives to them.

All I can say is that I am glad I bought a Honda that gets 33 mpg instead of keeping the Expedition that got 17 on a good day.

Dave if you think houses were nuts out here 10 years ago they have doubled in price only to fall in a black hole. Foreclosures have replaced new home sales out here in sunny California.

 

[MrMNTTA]

Have you noticed that Brazil does not have the corn to produce E85 and instead they buy high fructose corn syrup and use that to make it?

Guess where they buy it from exclusively? Archer Daniels Midland.

That is not true Reggie. They mainly produce it from sugar cane, which is grown on Brazilian soil.

 

[Reggie West]

I stand corrected. What I read indicates what you said yet the Science channel said it was high fructose corn syrup.

 

[ronbuick]

And guess why we can not import their sugar cane, tariff's form the sugar lobby makes it too expensive to buy, via the Discovery channel. We need to get cellulosic going and fast.

Ron

 

[TurboDave]

Fortunately, there is a company (can't remember their name) partnered with GM, that is perfecting a process to produce e85 at little more than a dollar a gallon, AND use only 1 gallon of water for each gallon of e85!!
They are able to produce it from many cellulosic, AND waste materials. Even including plastics and old tires!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the kind of break through that is needed, but they said full production (whatever that means) is still a few years away (2010-2011).

 

[MrMNTTA]

Fortunately, there is a company (can't remember their name) partnered with GM, that is perfecting a process to produce e85 at little more than a dollar a gallon, AND use only 1 gallon of water for each gallon of e85!!
They are able to produce it from many cellulosic, AND waste materials. Even including plastics and old tires!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the kind of break through that is needed, but they said full production (whatever that means) is still a few years away (2010-2011).

FYI - the company is called Cokata - and yes, that would be awesome if they could make it work.

 

[BoostCrzy]

i think the price of gas should go up to about 6 or 7 bux a gallon....maybe more...then the only people on the road will be the ones who could afford it...and THAT would cut the pollution...and reduce the amount of consumption...plus it would force Mass transit to be implemented properly....