what you smokin' ?????? share
beginning to hate E85!
- Thread starter TurboDave
- Start date
what you smokin' ?????? share
Fortunately, there is a company (can't remember their name) partnered with GM, that is perfecting a process to produce e85 at little more than a dollar a gallon, AND use only 1 gallon of water for each gallon of e85!!
They are able to produce it from many cellulosic, AND waste materials. Even including plastics and old tires!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the kind of break through that is needed, but they said full production (whatever that means) is still a few years away (2010-2011).
if that works, that company will be bought up by big oil soon.
.....we will never hear from them again:frown: Plug Power was a small, independent fuel cell developer in Troy NY..they we making huge steps forward in that technology..(about 8-10 years ago)....till GE bought them out....you don't hear a whisper from them now....:frown:
if that works, that company will be bought up by big oil soon.
Plug Power was a small, independent fuel cell developer in Troy NY..they we making huge steps forward in that technology..(about 8-10 years ago)....till GE bought them out....you don't hear a whisper from them now....:frown:
Hope not, Since GM is their partner in this, I doubt GM will let that happen.
Boostcrzy, you must live in the big city, so you must you using public trans??
what are the people that live out of the city and need to commute, ie, in the
PNW or country side supposed to do, Etc?, I need what you are smokin!! so I do not have to face reality.
Ron
what are the people that live out of the city and need to commute, ie, in the
PNW or country side supposed to do, Etc?, I need what you are smokin!! so I do not have to face reality.
Ron
City dwellers always seem to forget, we don't all have ready access to mass transit of any kind.
The answer to your question would be that rural people should car pool to conserve fuel....
I think what BoostCrzy is hinting at, is that if people were forced (by super high gas prices) to find other means of transportation, the world would be a better place. (Less pollution, less consumption, etc...)
Why do you think most people in large European cities drive Festivas, mopeds, and Mini Cooper type cars??
He's also hinting that the state of mass transit is junk. Look at Chicago's CTA fiasco...what a joke.
V6UnderPressure
The Artist FKA Scott4DMny
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
I just wanna use E85 so I can order my license plate. "CORN FED"
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
and the answer to that is that not everyone is going in the same direction at the same time, so carpooling isn't really a viable option for a lot of people.
The answer to what? Everyone can't fit in one car. Can I have some of what you're smokin'? ...
The answer to what? Everyone can't fit in one car. Can I have some of what you're smokin'? ...
I could be wrong, but I don't think he's saying everyone can't fit in the car. He's saying that once they get in the car, they aren't going the same direction to work since they may not work at the same place. Which would make carpooling useless.
And to add one more grain of salt to the corn based ethanol problems, here's one more.
There was an article in our local paper this weekend talking about corn ethanol (the only present day viable technology for producing ethanol) as a general replacement for imported oil. The one of many things that the backers haven't maybe thought about much.
Our corn production is being pushed to the absolute limit, and as corn based ethanol (now in virtually all gasoline at at least a 10% concentration) starts growing even more.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A DROUGHT HITS THE CORN BELT???????
There was an article in our local paper this weekend talking about corn ethanol (the only present day viable technology for producing ethanol) as a general replacement for imported oil. The one of many things that the backers haven't maybe thought about much.
Our corn production is being pushed to the absolute limit, and as corn based ethanol (now in virtually all gasoline at at least a 10% concentration) starts growing even more.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A DROUGHT HITS THE CORN BELT???????
Dave, I'll tell you one thing that I know for sure. You will not hear anyone with any knowledge in the ethanol industry that will tell you that ethanol is the cure-all for all the energy problems we have. Ethanol is not a "general replacement" for oil, and has NEVER intended to be. Anyone with that notion has no clue. There isn't enough grain in the nation to accomplish that, and I don't mean just corn. It's going to take many other technologies, wind, solar, water, etc, etc, and even then oil will still be a big part of the energy matrix.
Dave, what is your knowledge of our current corn crop from 2007? The USA exported more corn this year, and we are reported to have the biggest surplus than we've had in years also. Where is your hard data that proves out what you've said? Where is all of this strain you speak of? The biggest reason corn is so high is because the wheat crop from last year was down worldwide and they're turning to corn for the shortfall. This has been stated already in this thread, but it doesn't seem like people want to read the responses.
Here's the problem. A major majority of the types of progaganda that are out there are being funded by the oil companies and their record earnings. Have you taken the time to read some of the rebuttals to all of the negative press?
Just as NovaDerrick said, you are going to believe what you want. It also sounds like you believe everything you read without having an educated opinion from both sides.
What happens when a drought hits the corn belt? Well, God forbid, hopefully cellulosic technology gets going and can make up some of the shortfall. If not, we'll turn to oil. No one will really know until it happens.
Sounds like I hit a raw nerve. Ironically, I agree with "most" of what you just said.
I realize the media is not the reliable source that they'd like us to believe they are. Just listen to their political coverage!!
A lot of what worries me is what I'm hearing from the up and coming ethanol industry, not only in the printed and televised media, but on more reliable sources like Disc. channel, Hist. channel, etc. etc... They are one's that are claiming to be the be all to end all of our oil dependency woes.
Of course I don't believe that any more than anyone else does. Ethanol is just one cog in the big wheel.
But, corn prices are pushing toward record highs, wheat prices similarly pushing too high, too fast.
I would rather see the ethanol industry slow down on their demand for corn until we get better technologies in place to supplant the corn as the sole source for ethanol production. There are lot's of technologies coming, the key word being "coming".
But our illustrious idiots in government are mandating more ethanol production than we will be able to accomplish on corn alone. Like I said, even in the backwoods of TN here just in the last few weeks, all gasoline is now E-10 minimum.
I'll tone down my rhetoric and we'll wait and see how things go over the next couple years.
Trust me, I'm for anything that will supplant our dependence on foreign oil, but not at the expense of our economy. I know, I know, what we're suffering is not the fault of ethanol production right now, but, it isn't helping.
I realize the media is not the reliable source that they'd like us to believe they are. Just listen to their political coverage!!
A lot of what worries me is what I'm hearing from the up and coming ethanol industry, not only in the printed and televised media, but on more reliable sources like Disc. channel, Hist. channel, etc. etc... They are one's that are claiming to be the be all to end all of our oil dependency woes.
Of course I don't believe that any more than anyone else does. Ethanol is just one cog in the big wheel.
But, corn prices are pushing toward record highs, wheat prices similarly pushing too high, too fast.
I would rather see the ethanol industry slow down on their demand for corn until we get better technologies in place to supplant the corn as the sole source for ethanol production. There are lot's of technologies coming, the key word being "coming".
But our illustrious idiots in government are mandating more ethanol production than we will be able to accomplish on corn alone. Like I said, even in the backwoods of TN here just in the last few weeks, all gasoline is now E-10 minimum.
I'll tone down my rhetoric and we'll wait and see how things go over the next couple years.
Trust me, I'm for anything that will supplant our dependence on foreign oil, but not at the expense of our economy. I know, I know, what we're suffering is not the fault of ethanol production right now, but, it isn't helping.
Yes, you did hit a raw nerve because I have ties directly to all of it. I'm just so sick of the negativity and the unbased comments like....."all those damn ethanol plants are robbing all the corn and causing people to go hungry"........which is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard. It's not true!
Me too !!
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
Dave I wasn't trying to make you look like a Big Oil backer, I hear your frustration.
The good thing is that E85 isn't considered the saving grace, it's an easy start to getting us off oil, ( which needs to be supported regardless of it's financial consequences IMO ), kind of like the patch, but for fuel.
Before ya know it, big oil will be slamming E85, Battery Hybrids, Fuel Cell, Hydrogen, Solar and even Salt Water technology!!
One day gas will go back to being $2 a gallon here in the USA, the day we all don't need it. :frown:
The good thing is that E85 isn't considered the saving grace, it's an easy start to getting us off oil, ( which needs to be supported regardless of it's financial consequences IMO ), kind of like the patch, but for fuel
.Before ya know it, big oil will be slamming E85, Battery Hybrids, Fuel Cell, Hydrogen, Solar and even Salt Water technology!!
One day gas will go back to being $2 a gallon here in the USA, the day we all don't need it. :frown:
If there is a drought in the midwest, ethanol production will decrease and we will import more corn from overseas. Corn is fairly resilient to drought and much of it is irrigated anyway.
The supply of corn is 100 times more reliable than the supply of crude oil. We are paying $3.40 for a gallon of gas because of the instability in countries that export crude to the U.S. Speculators are paying big money for crude oil in the futures market to ensure a consistent supply for their refineries. The fear of political instability in oil producing countries is what is really driving the price of crude oil - it has little to do with supply and demand.
The great thing about ethanol is that it will help to keep gas prices in check. Competition is always good for the consumer and up until recently, there was no alternative to gasoline. As the use of ethanol becomes more widespread, the consumer can purchase e85 instead of gasoline when prices get too high.
I can kind of buy in to the opinion that the ethanol industry is expanding too rapidly. However, the high price of corn is resulting in more land being taken out of CRP, better yield due to advancements in seed corn technology, etc. Supply will increase to respond to the high demand for corn - it is simple economics.
The supply of corn is 100 times more reliable than the supply of crude oil. We are paying $3.40 for a gallon of gas because of the instability in countries that export crude to the U.S. Speculators are paying big money for crude oil in the futures market to ensure a consistent supply for their refineries. The fear of political instability in oil producing countries is what is really driving the price of crude oil - it has little to do with supply and demand.
The great thing about ethanol is that it will help to keep gas prices in check. Competition is always good for the consumer and up until recently, there was no alternative to gasoline. As the use of ethanol becomes more widespread, the consumer can purchase e85 instead of gasoline when prices get too high.
I can kind of buy in to the opinion that the ethanol industry is expanding too rapidly. However, the high price of corn is resulting in more land being taken out of CRP, better yield due to advancements in seed corn technology, etc. Supply will increase to respond to the high demand for corn - it is simple economics.
The good thing is that E85 isn't considered the saving grace, it's an easy start to getting us off oil, ( which needs to be supported regardless of it's financial consequences IMO ), kind of like the patch, but for fuel
Before ya know it, big oil will be slamming E85, Battery Hybrids, Fuel Cell, Hydrogen, Solar and even Salt Water technology!!
One day gas will go back to being $2 a gallon here in the USA, the day we all don't need it. :frown:
One thing about E85 right now is that the volume of sales of E85 aren't even a fraction of the sales of ethanol for blending the E10 that's out there across the nation. The biggest reason is that there aren't that many pumps specifically for E85 yet.
Before ya know it huh?? lol That's a joke in it's self. Big oil's already been slamming and slamming anything that gets in it's way, or tries to get in it's way, especially ethanol in any way it can. I don't see that changing any time soon.
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
I should have excluded E85 from the slamming, they started that years ago.
But let's see what they say about all the other options that are inevitably going to put a hurt on their industry.
Just talked to my bud at the local Phillips 66 where I get my 110 leaded, he said it would take over a week to install E85 and Biodiesel tanks / pumps and that the cost of adding it is not worth it yet to them.
It's going to be a struggle with the stations themselves, I don't blame them for not wanting to shut down the whole station for a week.
But let's see what they say about all the other options that are inevitably going to put a hurt on their industry.
Just talked to my bud at the local Phillips 66 where I get my 110 leaded, he said it would take over a week to install E85 and Biodiesel tanks / pumps and that the cost of adding it is not worth it yet to them.
It's going to be a struggle with the stations themselves, I don't blame them for not wanting to shut down the whole station for a week.